18650 Cluster grenades

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Joined
Oct 8, 2016
Messages
57
"Just show me someone who is heating up a battery under one of these to show thermal stress."


"What about the sudo 'lithium build up'

... are you trying to make up science ?"

You.....do realize that Lithium batteries have Lithium inside them right? It's not just a catchy name. You also realize that in order to have an internal short you need a metal to conduct between the anode and cathode? What do you think this metal is if not Lithium? It's a compound called Lithium dendrite. Google it. Ahh never mind, you already know everything.

http://m.jes.ecsdl.org/content/162/7/A1352.full

"It can also be Li dendrite formed by Li plating due to overcharge or degradation"

Once again, you are wrong.

"Wow dude, you should read what you write."

Chuckles a plenty. They are not laughing with you. They are laughing AT you


"The cells blow up due to shorts in wiring nearly universally, which then locally heats inso and causes more shorts. Its nearly always inso fires that lead to runaway thermal situations where multiple cells fail."

Please provide evidence that all these laptop and phone fires are due to wiring shorts. In fact, show me an example other than a dodgy DIY Powerwall


http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm

"With excessive currents the Lithium ions can not be accommodated quickly enough between the intercalation layers of the anode and Lithium ions accumulate on the surface of the anode where they are deposited as metallic Lithium. This is known as Lithium plating. The the consequence is a reduction in the free Lithium ions and hence an irreversible capacity loss and since the plating is not necessarily homogeneous, but dendritic in form, it can ultimately result in a short circuit between the electrodes. "

Mic drop
 

3nergE

Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2016
Messages
97
DIYTESLAPOWERWALL said:
"Just show me someone who is heating up a battery under one of these to show thermal stress."


ok, well, that doesnt appear to be a DIY building, but I cant really assert that since its just a random vid with no extra info. Secondly, due to the extreme action of the heating, and description, its a deliberately induced fail, so fail again on your example and assertion.

Likely Loads of J were pumped in the form of heat to create that scenario, so im calling irrelevant data given our situations.

ADDITIONAL : ok, so typically cell manufacturers use a LINAC to test for cell stress, so in fact, this is done for us before manufacture. So your example is NULL by the fact that its already done to ensure the extremes are safer. thanks for providing an example that actually excludes your information as a PANIC POINT ...


DIYTESLAPOWERWALL said:
You.....do realize that Lithium batteries have Lithium inside them right? It's not just a catchy name. You also realize that in order to have an internal short you need a metal to conduct between the anode and cathode? What do you think this metal is if not Lithium? It's a compound called Lithium dendrite. Google it. Ahh never mind, you already know everything.

Less than a percent, so your assertion was all sudo. I like it how you ask and answer your own question above here, saves me pointing out the obvious to you <chuckles>

Dendrite compounds occur under extremes of chemistry and bad treatment. You could work that one out from google if you tried, dont expect you to know the chem on that. But there are a few good 2-3 hr lectures floating around that might get you up to speed. Search if interested.


DIYTESLAPOWERWALL said:
"With excessive currents the Lithium ions can not be accommodated quickly enough between the intercalation layers of the anode and Lithium ions accumulate on the surface of the anode where they are deposited as metallic Lithium. This is known as Lithium plating. The the consequence is a reduction in the free Lithium ions and hence an irreversible capacity loss and since the plating is not necessarily homogeneous, but dendritic in form, it can ultimately result in a short circuit between the electrodes. "

Mic drop

Again, your examples are at the extreme end. I think your forgetting the basic math here.

Check out my powerwall thread, and ive clearly shown the type of C rates the batteries are experiencing 1/5 - 1/10 is pretty common, pete's would be even less considering the number of cells.

Your using examples that are not relevant to win an argument rather than giving relevant advice to help others create more safely or avoid hazards. Its a pity really, as at first glance you come off as intelligent and informed.


kind regards
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2016
Messages
57
It's obvious that you will dismiss any research that contradicts your erroneous knowledge as irrelevant or extreme. Despite proving you wrong at every turn, with evidence to back it up, you insist that you are still right. You have this delusion that you are smarter than all of these researchers I've presented. While I back up my statements when requested, you never provide evidence to support yours.

You have no interest in debating facts. It's all about ego. You want to be the all knowing never wrong guru.

It's pointless and I'm done. Yawn
 

3nergE

Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2016
Messages
97
DIYTESLAPOWERWALL said:
It's obvious that you will dismiss any research that contradicts your erroneous knowledge as irrelevant or extreme. Despite proving you wrong at every turn, with evidence to back it up, you insist that you are still right. You have this delusion that you are smarter than all of these researchers I've presented. While I back up my statements when requested, you never provide evidence to support yours.

You have no interest in debating facts. It's all about ego. You want to be the all knowing never wrong guru.

It's pointless and I'm done. Yawn

Sounds like a personal attack solves your lack of further interest in expanding the subject.

Nevertheless, it just appears that you clutched at any extreme example to prove a point.

Following that thread of thought and the FUD on your youtube page, Im assuming your point is that we should all pack in the idea of researching and executing a powerwall design and application. I dont agree, I agree with only sharing knowledge and experience that will help others in this forum go forward, break down the barriers and succeed with their personal projects.

I dont see your contributions as anything in this direction.

Might I suggest you check out my youtube vids, they are short, succinct and point in the direction of helping others expedite their project even in the face of criticism and fear mongering that goes on in the community.

Perhaps if you follow this kind of philosophy, your facts may be more palatable, and your contributions relevant. I know enough to know I have a lot more to learn, about everything, and have never asserted that im either an expert or a know all, but my attitude doesnt preclude me from knowing more ....

Ill quote myself, again saying, "Your using examples that are not relevant, to win an argument rather than giving relevant advice to help others create more safely or avoid hazards."

kind regards
 
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