Anyone willing to share a good LTO supplier?

SystemsPlanet

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Joined
Oct 15, 2020
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I am looking to buy 100 LTO 40 or 45 Ah cells.

I need to find a supplier who is known for providing good cells
so I don't have to mess with shipping them back.

I also need a way to test them individually.

I was thinking about building 6S 12 volt packs
and stack them to get 48 volts.
Probably use 4 in parallel to get a total of 6 x 4 x 4 = 96 cells

I was thinking
- I wouldn't need a BMSif I can get I can combine cells with similar internal resistance
- I would add a balancer to each 12 volt pack.

Is there anyone on this forum who is willing help
a newbe who is trying to DIY some LTO battery storage?

Anyone?

I reached out to Craig, but he wasn't willing to share his supplier because
"I literally spent over a thousand dollars trying to find a good one".

Mike
 

Korishan

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Gonna be tough finding LTO cells, especially if you want new ones.
Any specific reason why you want/need to go with LTO specifically? You could go with LiFePO4's and get pretty close performance, and cheaper overall in the end.


btw, your link goes straight to a login page (at least for me)
 

SystemsPlanet

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Oct 15, 2020
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I'd be OK with lightly used ones if they meet specs.

I want LEO'S because
- they last forever (at least longer than me)
- they work in any temp
- they are practically indestructible (you can under charge them to zero or over charge them without destroying them)

The only negative for me is the weight, but I will never move them once in place, so that is not a problem.


Thanks for replying.
 

hyperborean1

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Oct 14, 2018
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I'm building packs for remote off-grid, that need to be reliable.
So we've been getting cells from suppliers that sell them to car stereo enthusiasts. Showtime Electronics is one supplier.
They're XS-Power rewraps of 40Ah Yinlong, not brand-new but still decent grade cells.
If you want to get in on a group buy, get on the facebook group 'yinlong only'.
 

Overmind

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LTOs had a problem last time I checked: high self-discharge rate.
 

completelycharged

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Overmind said:
LTOs had a problem last time I checked: high self-discharge rate.

They have very, very low self discharge. I have had one stat on a shelf (shed) for a year and it still had the same voltage....

My supplier was in China - check my build thread, they are listed but I can't remember them off hand at the moment.
 

Overmind

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Same voltage does not mean capacity is maintained.
A capacity test after 1 year would be most relevant.
 

OffGridInTheCity

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@DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse just did an update on LTOs with good discussion and several pros/cons that I found interesting.
"I was wrong about Lithium Titanate batteries. But should you use them for solar? 2020 Update"

 
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SystemsPlanet

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Oct 15, 2020
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@DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse just did an update on LTOs with good discussion and several pros/cons that I found interesting.
"I was wrong about Lithium Titanate batteries. But should you use them for solar? 2020 Update" -https://youtu.be/iOBSxEqXUQc
Saw it. I appreciate that Will admits when he is wrong.
I don't like his "calendar age" FUD.

LTO is much cheaper than LiFePO4 when you look at the cycles you get with LTO
 

prepared1

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Jan 17, 2021
Messages
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Many of the cells on the market have been sitting for years, especially those coming out of cars. For example, the Honda Fit batteries. Also, how many projects get started, batteries are purchased, stuff happens and the project is delayed? I think LTO is a very interesting chemistry, but it has to fit your use. Have you checked out Kokam?
 

Energycalifornia

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Feb 20, 2021
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I
I am looking to buy 100 LTO 40 or 45 Ah cells.

I need to find a supplier who is known for providing good cells
so I don't have to mess with shipping them back.

I also need a way to test them individually.

I was thinking about building 6S 12 volt packs
and stack them to get 48 volts.
Probably use 4 in parallel to get a total of 6 x 4 x 4 = 96 cells

I was thinking
- I wouldn't need a BMSif I can get I can combine cells with similar internal resistance
- I would add a balancer to each 12 volt pack.

Is there anyone on this forum who is willing help
a newbe who is trying to DIY some LTO battery storage?

Anyone?

I reached out to Craig, but he wasn't willing to share his supplier because
"I literally spent over a thousand dollars trying to find a good one".

Mike
I can help. Email me at energycaliforni@gmail.com
 

Energycalifornia

New member
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
2
I
I am looking to buy 100 LTO 40 or 45 Ah cells.

I need to find a supplier who is known for providing good cells
so I don't have to mess with shipping them back.

I also need a way to test them individually.

I was thinking about building 6S 12 volt packs
and stack them to get 48 volts.
Probably use 4 in parallel to get a total of 6 x 4 x 4 = 96 cells

I was thinking
- I wouldn't need a BMSif I can get I can combine cells with similar internal resistance
- I would add a balancer to each 12 volt pack.

Is there anyone on this forum who is willing help
a newbe who is trying to DIY some LTO battery storage?

Anyone?

I reached out to Craig, but he wasn't willing to share his supplier because
"I literally spent over a thousand dollars trying to find a good one".

Mike
I can help
 

piglet

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Jun 28, 2019
Messages
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Look, I have 440 pcs 40Ah LTO:s. They all were "new, unused, class A" batteries when I bought them. When they arrived, they all were much used, almost all rewrapped, but working batteries. I am using these as two parallel packs, 10P 22S each. With two 2A BMS and several chinese 5kilowatt inverter/chargers all using both packs.

Everything works almost OK, I had to get rid of three cells, but that is not too much.

Most of these LTO:s I bought from OSN, some from other sellers.

Observe that all these sellers lie all the time. The LTO:s are not new or unused. The manufacturer, Yinlong, says: " Yinlong Energy hasn't authorized any domestic agency in China to sell our battery products through B2B or other platforms, for protecting Your benefits in product quality and after-sales service, please contact us directly through official channels."

Actually that means that the sellers obtain the used batteries from local scrapyards and ev-users when they are not any longer good enough for the original EV-use.

Most batteries I bought from OSN work ok as solar batteries, but I have absolutely no idea how many charge cycles these still have.

Just do not believe anything the sellers say!

/Piglet
 

SystemsPlanet

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Oct 15, 2020
Messages
10
From what I understand you can buy new LTO batteries but they are outrageously expensive.

I bought 150 LTOs from OSN. All the ones I tested were close to 40Ahs as advertised. The offered to sell me new ones but I opted for used ones because of the cost.

The primary advantage of LTO is the cycle times. I assume the batteries from OSN have most of their life cycles remaining since they have most of their amp hours.

You may be looking for a unicorn. You won't find cheap and new.

Which BMS are you using?
I'm using a 10amp active balancer with my solark inverter.
 
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piglet

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Messages
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Did You buy Your batteries from OAN? I do not know who they are?

I bought most of mine from OSN, the latest OSN message to me claims that their batteries are unused, manufactured 2020, fresh, not rewrapped and that I should order more immediately since prices are going up.
Since I have already several hundred cells from them, I know that all the cells I have received were used and rewrapped.
The capacity was close to 40Ah but IR should have been less than 0.4 milliohms, some cells were higher.

Actually maybe I should have called my balancers just active balancers, not BMS. Ebay and aliexpress have lots of these, for example
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000152586308.html
So I have two of these 2A versions although not from this seller. Working very well.

/Piglet
 

SystemsPlanet

New member
Joined
Oct 15, 2020
Messages
10
Did You buy Your batteries from OAN? I do not know who they are?

I bought most of mine from OSN, the latest OSN message to me claims that their batteries are unused, manufactured 2020, fresh, not rewrapped and that I should order more immediately since prices are going up.
Since I have already several hundred cells from them, I know that all the cells I have received were used and rewrapped.
The capacity was close to 40Ah but IR should have been less than 0.4 milliohms, some cells were higher.

Actually maybe I should have called my balancers just active balancers, not BMS. Ebay and aliexpress have lots of these, for example
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000152586308.html
So I have two of these 2A versions although not from this seller. Working very well.

/Piglet
I meant OSN. That's the same active balancer I used, only I used the 10amp version. All the batteries I tested were under 0.3 milliohms.

I'm surprised they are telling you they are new batteries. New LTOs cost a fortune. Here is what they told me about the batteries:


[SIZE=1]Grade A Yinlong LTO Cells, or Automotive grade cells are selected according to the highest standards in regards of voltage, internal impedance, capacity, etc.
to make sure each cell in the same EV pack (usually thousands of cells) are the same (or within an allowed range) so that each cell is "consistent" with each other
to reach the best performance and longest cycle life. The automotive grade cells are the only/best choice for higher-end applications such as train traction,
e-bus or other big EV. The price for Grade A Yinlong cells, needless to say, is the highest cost, around US$700/KWh. We also can provide it.

Grade A- Yinlong LTO Cells are those failed the standards of automotive grade in regards of “consistency,”
meaning they may be lower than the A standards with minor defects at appearance, capacity, etc.,
but are still quite good cells for other applications which needs less quantity of cells,
such as car audio (currently very popular in the U.S., Russia and some parts of Europe),
lower-voltage storage such as home storage system, ICE starting, LEV, forklift, etc. after careful selection and matching.
The Grade A- cells are popular for these applications, because of their advantage of fast charge/discharge ability, 20,000-30,000 super long cycle life and ultra safety,
and the mostly importantly, price competitive, only around half the cost of Grade A LTO cells.
We called it Grade A- (A minus).

For home storage, all our current customers choose A- garde cells and they works well.
You needn't worry about it.
[/SIZE]
 
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