Batrium Cellmate K9, what does it do different

[carpetpaul]

I made some enquiries with Batrium, but didn’t get a proper reply by email. For a 48V 18650 build, I assumed I needed :

Watchmon Core
14 Longmon
Shunt 500A
Isomon

It was suggested that I should look at the K9 Cellmate, I think the email said it was the new ‘Centralised’ option and suitable for shared loom ?

I’m guessing that the K9 is in place of ISOmon, but what’s the real difference ?

Can anyone explain what this means ?

I’ll be making 14 modules of 80 cells (ish)

Many thanks

 

[DG98]

I cannot answer your question, but I can (and do) suggest you search a few very recent threads about Batrium and its support. Use the search function and I bet they will pop right up. The information there might lead you to reconsider that choice of vendor, as you are already experiencing what it can be like to communicate with them.

Cheers, John <-- Batrium user who wouldn't use the system again

 

[carpetpaul]

Yep, I’m getting that feeling. Seems the BMS work well, but the customer service isn’t great, whereas other suppliers might have better customer service but products that don’t work as well ?

It seems like there’s no general consensus on which is a reliable product ? The Chinese made stuff is a worry, surely they can’t have a great customer service ?

 

[Wolf]

Being a Batrium user and a past staunch advocate, till Batrium reverses their arrogance and snobbish attitude toward their customers,
I cannot recommend them. I hate to say this! But in an analogy if Rolls Royce treated their customers like this they wouldn't have a clientele soon enough. Just because you have a good product doesn't allow you to be an ass.
The saying stands: "The customer is always right, even if he is wrong".
Batrium needs to realize that, and gently make the customer realize he is wrong yet making them feel they where right all along.
Sales and marketing education is sadly lacking in the Batrium world.
Rant over.........

I’m guessing that the K9 is in place of ISOmon, but what’s the real difference ?

@carpetpau IF you are considering the Batrium then go with the Core Kit with logmons that's my opinion.
The longmons have a better bypass current capability :"Bypass current 0A to 2A (typically 1A)"

The Cellmate K9 is really designed more for OEM packs like Tesla, Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt, etc. that use "shared" wires between each cell in series
Also balance function is limited to 500mA which if you build a well balanced 18650 battery would be enough but if a Cellmate K9 board fails you are out of luck unless you have a complete K9 unit as a spare. if a longmon fails its an easy replace and your system is back up and running. that is of course if you do have a spare. I keep several just because.
Again don't take this as an endorsement of the Batrium system rather an explanation to a question you asked.
Wolf

Wolf

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

Agree with @Wolf - just had an extremely annoying/unhappy customer support response on a small issue (Batrium bug) that I just worked around myself.

But to you're question, the difference of centralized hardware (K9) with wires running out to the battery vs longmon hardware on each pack of the battery and just 4 wires running to the centralized unit is a key reason I went with longmons. The other is longmons can do much stronger (quicker) balance. Here's a pic of my batteries with longmons networked.

Since I pre-install the longmons on the packs, all I have to do is plug them into the chain and change a couple of software settings. Of course a central unit / running wires out to the packs isn't really any more difficult if that's what you plan for - but I wonder if the length of wire affect things. Since my powerwall is pretty large - its in the 6-10ft distance range from the central unit to the outer most packs.

 

[carpetpaul]

Wow, you guys have been such a great help ! Why on earth can’t the actual manufacturer reply in such a way, it’s baffling really. So I might as well as you guys the parts list, lol ….

For 48v :

Watchmon Core
Expansion board
14 x Longmon
Shunt 500A
iSOMon


Thank you again so much

 

[carpetpaul]

I thought I’d found a link to a discussion board on their website, which would have been a great idea if they’d actually implemented it and it didn’t say ‘coming soon’ I wonder how long it’s said that ?

I’ve had a lot of discussions with work colleagues recent about customer service, both good, wheee you get far more that you’d expected and are delighted with the company, singing their praises, and bad, I once sent some motorcycle luggage back to its supplier after a lengthy email exchange, I suggested that if they weren’t going to help me, they should throw it it’ll their skip…. And that was the last I saw of it ! Lol

 

[Wolf]

I thought I’d found a link to a discussion board on their website, which would have been a great idea if they’d actually implemented it and it didn’t say ‘coming soon’ I wonder how long it’s said that ?

Once they implement it they will be barraged by questions about their customer service failures. You think their reputation is bad on this board alone, wait till they get (-)5 stars as a review on their own community pages.
Yea I would leave the coming soon up forever.
Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.
Wolf

 

[Korishan]

Once they implement it they will be barraged by questions about their customer service failures.

From what I've read from multiple threads about support, they can't even keep up with "emails". Open up a platform where it's a lot easier to post questions, comments, concerns, rants, etc and they really won't be able to keep up. There's only a handful of ppl working at Batrium if I remember correctly, and I think it's his wife that handles the coms part of things.
Not looking good for them right now

 

[carpetpaul]

Once they implement it they will be barraged by questions about their customer service failures. You think their reputation is bad on this board alone, wait till they get (-)5 stars as a review on their own community pages.
Yea I would leave the coming soon up forever.
Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.
Wolf
View attachment 27978

Thanks for the reply. so you've had experience of Batrium and wouldn't use them again, but what alternative would you suggest to me ?

I'm struggling a bit with this, the market seems to be flooded with Chinese made products, which (probably) will have bad instructions and user interface, and (probably) bad customer service too.

Tell me, why are there tonnes of related products, all the charge controllers and electronics for the rest of solar are made by numerous and reputable companies, but, at least I think, these companies don't make BMS ? is it because they don't approve of or want to cater for us who are making essentially a DIY system ?

 

[Korishan]

what alternative would you suggest to me

diyBMS is a good alternative. It's come a long way since it's first design

these companies don't make BMS

Simply put, that's a lot of extra overhead to add. Companies that sell prefab batteries have BMS' already installed. And these companies that make Chargers/Inverters really only truly cater to prefab constructions. Some will actually tell you they don't cover any damage done to their units on DIY installations, that they need to installed by an official installer.
So by attaching a prefab battery w/ BMS to a Charger/Inverter, the main players are covered.
The Charger/Inverter companies don't need to worry about the BMS. Unless they also build prefab batteries, which some do

In the DIY community, that's where you run into needing to do custom/individual BMS installs, and there's a lot out there, and the cheapo Chinesium companies are willing to supply for, even at inefficiency or possible flat out failure on the consumer part. Sad, but true.

is it because they don't approve of or want to cater for us who are making essentially a DIY system ?

Basically, yes. Also liability issues they don't want to cover because of a DIYer's errors.

 

[Wolf]

had experience of Batrium and wouldn't use them again, but what alternative would you suggest to me ?

Alternatives yes that is the rub. (problem)

Maybe absolutely disenfranchising Batrium is a bit harsh. I just want the buyer to beware! (caveat emptor).
I don't recommend Batrium because of its technical inadequacies as in most ways it is a very good product.
But as stated before you can have a Rolls Royce however without customer support channels (Sales, Service, Support, and Warrantee) your product is not worth any price.
Most of us that use the Batrium product had to learn by doing rater than pay for technical support via a Zoom meeting.
If I am going to spend $1,000 USD on a Batrium system I would like a reasonable amount of technical support as part of the package.
If they have to add a hidden $120 USD (1 hr.) and the price is now $1120.00 USD and they offer reasonable technical support I think they would be way ahead as many of us wouldn't need but a few minutes and the ones that need a bit more would even out the cost.
Additionally we wouldn't be griping about paying for TS.

OK I see I am ranting again.

I don't know @carpetpaul how technically savvy you are but the diyBMS ( Ha @Korishan beat me to it^^^) comes to mind. I have been investigating this option and actually think this is as good if not better than the Batrium. I have purchased all the components and ordered the PCB's to build several (5) of the Shunts and (5) Controllers (TFT LCD Display included) along with (75) pack monitors.
If this is something you would consider then watch for my how to thread coming up in the next week or so.
@daromer, Stuart Pittaway the designer and a couple of others have done some how to videos and they are good.
Since some things have changed at JLCPCB, and ease of programing the controller with a .bin file make this BMS build very easy to do.
However there are some things that need better explanations and I plan on providing those step by step.
Hang on guys pictures will be included. I hope SLS has plenty of storage.
Wolf

 

[carpetpaul]

I gave up on Batrium, they did eventually reply, but I’ve lost confidence, so will buy an alternative. Thank you for the advice