battery price/source/life

Announcement - Help us fight the BOTS! Please report all spam including stuff in your inbox!

Yves

New member
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
19
Hi,

Can you give me a head start on where to get batteries for a powerwall and what the average prices is.

Some looking up on the internet turns out that they go for about US$2.5-3 per piece. So when you need several thousands of these this is going to get real expensive really soon.

Also, what is the expected life expectancy in terms of let's say a 50% DoD in the systems that the member here build.

Ideas ?

Thanks
 

Korishan

Moderator
Joined
Jan 7, 2017
Messages
6,522
As was suggested for me, start looking at your local computer and recycling locations. Lowe's/HomeDepot both have a recycling bin you may be able to grab some out of (I stopped by mine and looked in, there was at least 4 Ryobi LiIon and several other LiIon packs in there). Also check out any place that does computer repair. A lot of them have to "pay" to have their batteries picked up for recycling.

Another thing that was suggested to me, check with any construction crews. They go through batteries like Cookie Monster and cookies. You might be able to get the packs from them.

All the while, the per-cell cost for semi-new to new is yes, $1.50 - $3/cell. However, in the recycling world and you doing all the leg work, you can probably get away with <$.50/cell by suggesting you pay them (the aforementioned above) $2/lb, or even as much as $5/lb. A lot of the guys here were able to procure a lot of cells at the $1.25-$1.50/lb range.

There are plenty of other ways, cost ranges, suggestions and such. Just search or read through the postings. There isn't a crazy amount of posts to filter through since this forum is super focused on one primary topic. :) Easy reads, most of 'em anyways.
 

Aspendell

Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Messages
70
Yves said:
Hi,

Can you give me a head start on where to get batteries for a powerwall and what the average prices is.

Some looking up on the internet turns out that they go for about US$2.5-3 per piece. So when you need several thousands of these this is going to get real expensive really soon.

Also, what is the expected life expectancy in terms of let's say a 50% DoD in the systems that the member here build.

Ideas ?

Thanks

I will just address the lifespan part....

We have no influence on how the cell was treated before we got them, if used. So all we can do is try to pick out the best ones and extend the lifespan as far as possible.

Laptops are one of the most hostile environments for lithium batteries. They don't like changes in temperature while charging or discharging. But you don't have much control over that in an enclosed pack. The controllers in most laptop packs are designed to charge them to max voltage ~4.2v per cell, then allow them to discharge very low ~2.8v cell. Under this environment you have packs that can fail after a couple hundred to a few hundred cycles.

By comparison, NASA designs their satellites (yes they use lithium batteries) to charge and discharge in such a way that they can get up to 80,000 cycles out of them. Which is good because on-site repairman are kinda expensive.

So you can see the range. There are just too many factors to easily answer that question.

But I could see a configuration like HB Powerwall has, may have over half his used cells that don't need to be replaced after 15 years. We will see.

* Be very careful buying cells from eBay, as probably 90% of them are junk with 1/6th of the capacity of a Real used cell. Make sure they are name brand, or buy used laptop packs. Anything with Fire in the name is junk.
 

TheBatteries

Administrator
Joined
Oct 8, 2016
Messages
2,116
Yves said:
Can you give me a head start on where to get batteries for a powerwall and what the average prices is.

Some looking up on the internet turns out that they go for about US$2.5-3 per piece. So when you need several thousands of these this is going to get real expensive really soon.
Thanks

In my opinion, that guy is ripping you off. Like mentioned above, call your local computer repair shops. I've had a few just give me bags of batteries for free. Others charge for them but it's usually based on the weight. My prices usually range from $0.20-$0.60 per pack. Average is around $0.35 per pack. You can get them for cheaper than $3 on ebay even...
 

Yves

New member
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
19
Thanks, but in view of the cost and labor involved seems to me, albeit expensive, new batteries are the way to go.

Which brands are the ones to look for and which is the best source to buy them from ?

PS : I agree that the price delta can be big, but it depends on 2 factors apparently : quality and amount purchased.
 

hbpowerwall

Administrator
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Messages
1,977
It's a labor of love :p

I should really pull one of my early packs and retest them to really see how they are traveling after 12 months of use
 

Korishan

Moderator
Joined
Jan 7, 2017
Messages
6,522
I should really pull one of my early packs and retest them to really see how they are traveling after 12 months of use


Yes, you really should ;)

Inquiring minds really wanna know, especially since you're pretty much the one with the longest running packs here :)
 

TheBatteries

Administrator
Joined
Oct 8, 2016
Messages
2,116
Korishan said:
I should really pull one of my early packs and retest them to really see how they are traveling after 12 months of use
Inquiring minds really wanna know, especially since you're pretty much the one with the longest running packs here :)

This. I'd like to know what to expect several months from now :)
 

hbpowerwall

Administrator
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Messages
1,977
Got some changes happening in the coming months so I'll definitely invest the time in doing it
 

Yves

New member
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
19
hbpowerwall said:
It's a labor of love :p

I should really pull one of my early packs and retest them to really see how they are traveling after 12 months of use

Yes, that would be very interesting.

On a side note, I don't mind the investment in labor if the labor is not a reoccuring event, every 2 months or so.
As for the objective of a battery system : a lot of pressure is built up in the EU from the Utilities side. So, in order to stay connected to the grid, you will be required to have the installation checked. You can bet they are going to scrutinize us over here.
 

station240

Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
177
Yves said:
Some looking up on the internet turns out that they go for about US$2.5-3 per piece. So when you need several thousands of these this is going to get real expensive really soon.

If you mean buying new cells from ebay, aliexpress etc for that price, then don't, they are all fakes.
Realistic prices for new cells are US$4 to US$8 each, for authentic LG, Panasonic, Samsung, Sony, cells. Another brands are either repackaged cells, or 2nd rate/fakes.
You can get huge discounts if you buy cells in bulk, obviously.
Ask a local place that builds e-bike batteries if the sell new 18650 cells.
 

Yves

New member
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
19
station240 said:
Yves said:
Some looking up on the internet turns out that they go for about US$2.5-3 per piece. So when you need several thousands of these this is going to get real expensive really soon.

If you mean buying new cells from ebay, aliexpress etc for that price, then don't, they are all fakes.
Realistic prices for new cells are US$4 to US$8 each, for authentic LG, Panasonic, Samsung, Sony, cells. Another brands are either repackaged cells, or 2nd rate/fakes.
You can get huge discounts if you buy cells in bulk, obviously.
Ask a local place that builds e-bike batteries if the sell new 18650 cells.

I've seen those prices too. It was for a Panasonic 18650 with 3400 mAh. Even at 4 US$ per piece this gets really expensive quick.
 

Project

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
71
I just paid $2.75/lb for 2000lbs. It's on the high side but most of the laptops they came out of were working and not dead, they had other problems so hopefully my success rate will be better. Time will tell when I start testing them
 
Top