Grounding Reliable WZRELB inverter

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Cheap 4-life

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This grounding stuff can be confusing. So many people contradicting each other. Some say separate Ac an Dc grounding to different rods. Some say use the grids ac ground rod for all grounding of ac and dc. Some say to bond separate ground rods...

The thing that causing my brain the biggest problem is that my inverter has 60v from neutral to ground and 60v from hot to ground which makes 120v.. so I got a 3 pole manual transfer switch. I will connect ground neutral and hot from grid to the transfer switch, one pole for each wire. This will completely disconnect the grid from the critical loads subpanel. I will connect the inverters hot, neutral (but hot) and ground to the 3 poles on the other side of the transfer switch. I’m doing this so the inverter never puts 60v on the grids neutral. Am I doing that right? If I am then I have to install a separate ground rod to ground the case of the inverter. Then the case is connected to the inverters ac output ground (inside the inverter) which would become the subpanels and critical loads ground when the transfer switch is turned to inverter. When transfer switch is turned to grid then subpanels and critical loads ground would be main panels ground. Same with the neutrals.. please help me understand if the extra ground rod is needed for the inverter and if I should bond that rod to the grids rod? That seems like it would defeat the purpose of installing the second rod...
 
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Cheap 4-life

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Could I keep the ground from inverters ac output connected to the grids ground in the subpanel. Basically not disconnecting the grids ground when I switch to inverter. And still Ofcourse switch the neutral
 

OffGridInTheCity

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Reliable Inverters are their own case different than other inverters. For Reliable, *do not* ground to the 120v output ground (house ground) - I did this and it blew it up. It says somewhere in their docs explicitly to avoid this. I can't remember the theory for this but it has to do with lack of 'isolation' between the internal inverter circuits and the down-stream circuits - which allow some kind of bad-thing to occur to blow up the Reliable.

Its difficult to find explicit info on Reliable - here's an Amazon comment (and is what I did that blew mine up)
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Additional comments:
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daromer

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As said
1. Follow local regulations regarding grounding
2. Follow the manufacturer on what it says about grounding.

DO not listen to others explaining how they done and you will get issues. If you do yo umight end up with like offgridinthecity did :(

I say this because it diff alot between brands. Some brands you can ground, some brands you should ground others you cant becuase they arent isolated.... And so forth :)

Not answer to your question as persue since i dont own one but a recommendation along the way :)
 

Cheap 4-life

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Yes I understand to not ground the neutral. It has half (60v) of the 120v on it. To get past that I got a transfer switch with 3 poles so I could disconnect the grids neutral (and hot,ground) from the critical loads panel when it’s turned to inverter. Then the inverters neutral will be the ungrounded neutral for the critical loads. Then when transfer switch is switched back to grid it completely disconnects the inverters ground, neutral and hot from the critical loads and also disconnects inverter wires from the grid. That will keep the inverter from being damaged.
My question is the ground.. I am going to ground the inverter using the chassis ground screw of the inverter. Where do I wire that ground too. Can I ground it to the grids ground? Or do I need to use a separate ground rod for the inverter? If I can use the grids ground then I do not have to wire the grids ground (or inverters ground) to one Pole on each side of the transfer switch. I am asking this question because the grids ground is bonded to grids neutral. Although I am not using the grids neutral when transfer switch is turned to inverter. That makes me think that it doesn’t matter that the grids ground is bonded to neutral since the inverters neutral is not connected to the grids neutral at all. And critical loads neutral will never be connected to grids neutral and inverters neutral at the same time due to wiring the neutrals to the poles of the transfer switch
 

OffGridInTheCity

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Let's take a different tack. What are you wanting to ground exactly?
* The 120v side is grounded by the regular house ground. You don't say the DC voltage coming into the inverter...
* I don't ground the 48vdc (battery, wires to inverter, or my inverter cases). Maybe others do? If you're 12v or 24v - then grounding this is even less of an issue as far as I understand.
* Case of the inverter? or electrical flow inside the inverter? - the inverter may not support this... its a cheap inverter :)

Don't mean to sound like I'm against grounding - but I don't think there's going to be meaningful advice without a deeper dive in this case.... :)
 

Cheap 4-life

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I am wanting to ground the reliable inverters ac output so the critical loads have a ground (not floating). Inverter has a grounding nut-spot on its case for connecting the ac ground wire to a ground rod. Question is if I should connect the case of the inverter to my mains-grids ground rod or to a separate rod. I am not wanting to ground the dc side.
 

OffGridInTheCity

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I am wanting to ground the reliable inverters ac output so the critical loads have a ground. Inverter has a grounding nut-spot on its case for connecting the ac ground wire to a ground rod. I am not wanting to ground the dc side.
Ah OK. I don't think you can do this with Reliable. Just make sure the circuit you plug into the Reliable is grounded in normal AC fashion and I think that's all you can do with this inverter.

FYI - I'm happy to be corrected, I'm definitely NOT an electrician, etc - just an opinion from being down this road myself / no concrete info. I'm guessing that 'grounding' was just not a big concern with Reliable folks and may not be part of its design. This is partly why I went with AIMS (who are clear about grounding in their docs and make ETL listed versions) and let my last remaining Reliable serve as an inverter for a portable solar generator in a cooler (no grounding).
 

Cheap 4-life

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The circuit that usually gets plugged into a reliable is not grounded to a rod. Usually a load is just plugged into the inverters outlets and uses inverters floating ground. The reliable cannot be connected to the grid in normal fashion because of the inverters hot neutral. So my plan is to completely disconnect the grids ground ,neutral and hot from the critical loads panel (via the 3 pole transfer switch). Then the switch only allows the critical loads to use the inverter neutral (actually hot), ground and hot. Then the wires from the critical loads breakers-busbars to the loads-outlets is just like plugging them into the inverters outlets. So that’s not a problem. What I’m trying to figure out is if the inverters ground (not neutral) actually has to be wired to one of the transfer switches poles. I’m doing that so the inverter and grid are completely separate, which also means that I would have to install a different ground rod for the inverter. Can I not connect the ground wire (from grid and inverter) to a pole on the transfer switch, instead connect the grids ground and inverters ground at the critical loads panel grounding busbar? So inverter would still use the grids ground rod. Is there a problem with connecting the inverters ground and the grids ground. Or should I install the extra ground rod for the inverter.
 
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OffGridInTheCity

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I'm really interested in this since I blew one up but I believe Reliable inverters (which I love) are not engineered to be compatible with US wiring but I can't say why... so I'm hoping that by continuing to share here, it will give you your answer and maybe I can understand what's happening. :)

Here's a youtube of a person I follow who has several Reliables. He's showing what he calls a 'live ground' on one Reliable but not on another. My Reliables had the 'live ground' situation - which doesn't seem like a good idea to me (but what do I know).

With that in mind, this youtube is interesting but I can't vouch for its accuracy. Its shows that ground and neutral are not bonded in this Reliable inverter - leading to 60v across ground and neutral (yellow and red on outside terminal block). I think this means that there would be a 60v potential between ground and neutral - regardless of how you attempt to ground it. This guy seems to have solved it by bonding ground/neutral on the inverter board - but how/why this fixed things.... not sure.
 
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Cheap 4-life

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That second video he grounded the inverters neutral. This would make the neutral not able to supply its 60v needed for the inverter to supply 120v. I’d suspect that after he grounded-bonded the inverters neutral to ground, then the inverter was only capable of supplying 60v (from the one hot leg) to loads. Or he damaged the inverter once he powered a load due to grounding the neutral. I wouldn’t think the other hot would supply 120v (instead of 60v) in relation to ground after he connected the live neutral to ground.
Yep I seen all of going offgrids videos
 
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Cheap 4-life

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That second video, he never shows that the inverter could supply 120v after he bonded the neutral to ground. I’ve read of other people bonding the inverters neutral inside the inverter but none ever say how it went when they turned on a load. Like if the inverter could supply 120v when the 60v neutral is grounded. Probably because they fried the inverter.
 
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Reaj2008

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I have the reliable 3000w 24v installed in my cabin. It is wired just like a house , plug outlets , switches, even a circuit breaker. Yes there is 60v at all times on the neutral wire. Even with the light switch turned off. Hell even with the breaker off. I wired it normally before I figured out the inverter had that 60v 60v scheme to make 120. You can put a separate breaker on the neutral wire for when you want to shut down both legs of 60v. But other then that it operates perfectly normal wired like a normal house. Just make sure all your neutral wires are insulated and not going to touch or ground out to anything. Because as long as the system is on they are carrying 60v even when you turn off your light switches. It's been running like that for a couple years with no issue. I even run a window ac unit on solar through this reliable inverter with no issue. When I get around to upgrading I'll find a inverter that can do 120v on the one hot leg only. And I'll be able to install it just the same way the reliable is. I won't have to change anything. 👌👌👌👌 Bottom line it is not that big of a deal having 60v ok the neutral as long as you know it's there and your wiring is safe to have voltage there. No grounding
 

Cheap 4-life

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I have the reliable 3000w 24v installed in my cabin. It is wired just like a house , plug outlets , switches, even a circuit breaker. Yes there is 60v at all times on the neutral wire. Even with the light switch turned off. Hell even with the breaker off. I wired it normally before I figured out the inverter had that 60v 60v scheme to make 120. You can put a separate breaker on the neutral wire for when you want to shut down both legs of 60v. But other then that it operates perfectly normal wired like a normal house. Just make sure all your neutral wires are insulated and not going to touch or ground out to anything. Because as long as the system is on they are carrying 60v even when you turn off your light switches. It's been running like that for a couple years with no issue. I even run a window ac unit on solar through this reliable inverter with no issue. When I get around to upgrading I'll find a inverter that can do 120v on the one hot leg only. And I'll be able to install it just the same way the reliable is. I won't have to change anything. 👌👌👌👌 Bottom line it is not that big of a deal having 60v ok the neutral as long as you know it's there and your wiring is safe to have voltage there. No grounding
Some loads (like my fancy fridge the wife had to have) will not operate with 60v on the neutral to ground. I’m still wondering how I can make it supply 120v on just the hot. Like if anyone has ever has success bonding the inverters neutral to ground inside the inverter. I’d really like to get that fridge running offgrid
 

Reaj2008

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Some loads (like my fancy fridge the wife had to have) will not operate with 60v on the neutral to ground. I’m still wondering how I can make it supply 120v on just the hot. Like if anyone has ever has success bonding the inverters neutral to ground inside the inverter. I’d really like to get that fridge running offgrid
Ohh I didn't know some appliances have a issue with it. My little 3.5 cu mini beer fridge has been running off grid on solar for 2 years now. Even my window air works on the 60v,60v scheme. And that has a gfi plug. Not sure why your fridge wont work. But maybe you need to get a inverter like that has the 120/0/0 set up. But of course takes $$$$
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