HBPowerwall (Official)

[slimf]

I can’t imagine building a wall out of 18650’s.. you got to much time. ;-p

 

[hbpowerwall]

I can't imagine ever doing it again !!!!

 

[slimf]

Lifepo4 to the rescue..

 

[hbpowerwall]

I have a good budget for LifePo upgrade but those dam regulations really limit what i can do.. it's really about future income - can't spend money if i can't continue to make it the same way i used to.

 

[Wolf]

I can’t imagine building a wall out of 18650’s.. you got to much time. ;-p

I can't imagine ever doing it again !!!!

For the purist in me, do I have to remind everyone this board is called Second Life Storage. As in reusing what was going to go to a landfill to power our homes. The problem is that recycling takes time and effort. I understand that. I for one will continue the tradition of sourcing USED batteries, testing and constructing DIY batteries from what was going to go into the waste stream instead of buying ready made batteries that require little to no effort to construct into a working powerwall. If I wanted that I could go out and buy a Tesla or some other variation as it seems everyone is jumping on the PW bandwagon. https://www.businessinsider.com/rechargeable-battery-options-compete-tesla-2017-5

No not me. I am not going to be buying brand new LifePo4 (or any other) batteries and contributing to the waste stream just because it is easier.
Quoting a former US president. “We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard." I do not equate building a powerwall from used cells to going to the moon but nevertheless the analogy is there. To build a successful powerwall from used cells a lot of things have to be observed and rules need to be followed. Otherwise bad things happen. https://secondlifestorage.com/index.php?threads/when-things-go-wrong-it-can-go-really-wrong.10317/
I am not belittling the journey to move to new cells as unpatriotic but maybe a new board and if not that, at least a Forum that deals with new battery powerwall construction.
You can have my used 18650s when you pry them from my cold dead hands.

Wolf

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

And I'm so far into 18650 (nearing 10,000 cells) I need another 22.401yrs to get my money back according to my purchase tracking Excel sheet as of this morning.

I am a bit jealous of the 'ease' of hooking up LifePo4 cells, the promised life-span, and the promised safety increase - but I think I've really and truly saved a TON of $ by using my spare time to build my battery bank out of used cells. The price/cell has fallen over the last 3 years - maybe it will continue to fall.

By having so many 'small units' - it will be interesting to see how maintenance goes. For the long-term, it might actually be less expensive to recondition a pack compared to larger LifePo4 brick units. Unfortunately - just don't have *any* experience here yet - hasn't been long enough.

And the battery bank itself is performing so well - I have to remind myself to actually go below now and then to stare at it 'just in case' something's amiss. The main question now is 'how real' is the long-life chart on Battery University. If I actually live another 22.401yrs I'll be sure to report back

 

[slimf]

regulations really limit what i can do

Do it anyway

 

[italianuser]

... another 22.401yrs ...

... You know, in italian you read that 22 thousand 401, so that was my first read LOL I was sort of "OGITC what are you doing wth!!"

And, yes, I do agree with recycling for green power. And that it takes a real big effort making this stuff , surely my biggest "hardware" project ever.

I'd like to try car lithium batteries, maybe next year when I finish this first solar battery pack

 

[hbpowerwall]

My issue was the added time of recording and editing.. it sure was a journey - More Mini's and Bees and fewer batteries for me for the foreseeable future..

 

[Dr. Dickie]

Lifepo4 to the rescue..

If I do it again, and I plan to, I will definitely go LiFePO4.

 

[hbpowerwall]

I've looked into getting LiFePo4 cells - it but can't find an electrition to help me install and make it legal and insurable Happy the BMS has my back last night- Cell 51 went crazy low - woke up connected to grid but not on fire so that's a bonus.

 

[hbpowerwall]

Batteries have been going for 5 years now, that's as long as I really expected it to run, I would say I've gone from 40kw useable to 25, with maintenance I'll get that back to 35kwh useable but it a heck of a job doing that much testing.

 

[camthecam]

I bought secondhand lipo4's. still 24v.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

Happy the BMS has my back last night- Cell 51 went crazy low - woke up connected to grid but not on fire so that's a bonus.

Did you find the cause for pack 51 dropping to 2.6v? and it happened in a short time period?
I'm at 1186 cycles (3.25 years) with Wm4 + longmons and no trouble - but I'm of course wondering what will happen in the long run - will I see something like 2.6v overnight!?! (Yikes)

 

[hbpowerwall]

it's just poor quality, REALLY should replace it but I'll just let the bms do its job..

 

[Dr. Dickie]

Batteries have been going for 5 years now, that's as long as I really expected it to run, I would say I've gone from 40kw useable to 25, with maintenance I'll get that back to 35kwh useable but it a heck of a job doing that much testing.

Yeah. I learned a WHOLE lot doing this powerwall. But, I would again like to up my capacity to 1/2 again, but I am just no longer committed to the 18650 form going forward. I am going to nurse what I got to make it last (hopefully) another 3 years. Then if or when I move (which is the plan), the new setup it will be LiFePO4 (or whatever new chemistry they have at that time). All those thousands of little cells just make maintenance a nightmare--and I welded mine with 32 AWG wires. No regrets (except for how naive I was at the start), but hindsight means you learned something.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

Yeah. I learned a WHOLE lot doing this powerwall. But, I would again like to up my capacity to 1/2 again, but I am just no longer committed to the 18650 form going forward. I am going to nurse what I got to make it last (hopefully) another 3 years. Then if or when I move (which is the plan), the new setup it will be LiFePO4 (or whatever new chemistry they have at that time). All those thousands of little cells just make maintenance a nightmare--and I welded mine with 32 AWG wires. No regrets (except for how naive I was at the start), but hindsight means you learned something.

Today will be cycle 1192 on the oldest battery. 1192 cycles @ 36.3% DOD yearly average / 365days = 3.3yrs and no detectable loss of capacity so far. I'm 'wildly' optimistic about 20yrs (7,300 cycles). But we'll see if I live that long. I wonder if I start noticing capacity degradation it will happen quickly? like the discharge curve knee?

Its hard not to be 'grass is greener' with all the emphasis on LifePo4, but as in 18650, ensuring 'new cells' is difficult and $ still seems significantly higher. Folks like @LithiumSolar (e.g. source of deep/reliable info) just got theirs online, and hopefully over time we'll see if that they hold up or what the problems might be.

 

[hbpowerwall]

Yeah. I learned a WHOLE lot doing this powerwall. But, I would again like to up my capacity to 1/2 again, but I am just no longer committed to the 18650 form going forward. I am going to nurse what I got to make it last (hopefully) another 3 years. Then if or when I move (which is the plan), the new setup it will be LiFePO4 (or whatever new chemistry they have at that time). All those thousands of little cells just make maintenance a nightmare--and I welded mine with 32 AWG wires. No regrets (except for how naive I was at the start), but hindsight means you learned something.

Yeh, large format is the only way forward, but my new setup if I ever do one won't be in this home and will not be public

Today will be cycle 1192 on the oldest battery. 1192 cycles @ 36.3% DOD yearly average / 365days = 3.3yrs and no detectable loss of capacity so far. I'm 'wildly' optimistic about 20yrs (7,300 cycles). But we'll see if I live that long. I wonder if I start noticing capacity degradation it will happen quickly? like the discharge curve knee?

Its hard not to be 'grass is greener' with all the emphasis on LifePo4, but as in 18650, ensuring 'new cells' is difficult and $ still seems significantly higher. Folks like @LithiumSolar (e.g. source of deep/reliable info) just got theirs online, and hopefully over time we'll see if that they hold up or what the problems might be.

1292 WOW! don't even know how many mine has done... but they are still doing it so happy with that

 

[hbpowerwall]

Well it's been a while, but it's time to update how the whole project is progressing.. TL;DR - Awesome!

View: https://youtu.be/PPXAb9zZtpQ