^^^ I don't know what you mean by "cells have flash". Whether or not (micro) internal shorts can be detected by various types of IR measurements is an open question iirc. If you know of work on such then please give some links. I should be able to dig up some links later if I can manage to jog my memory.
hello need advice to test my cells 18650
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Umm... the whole pointof showing a flowchart was to give an overall process - and you nit pick details, again - beating up on points already covered well (low pre-charge mA).gauss163 said:
So bump pre-charging now is less dangerous? Oh Please.
Not helpful.
[/quote]gauss163 said:
Umm... the incoming cells are unknown. We don't know the state of the cell yet. Obviously by using a flowchart we apply care & weed out problems.
You need to get practical some time soon & be less irritating.
[/quote]gauss163 said:
In your post #31 you went off about how to cause internal shorts. Why? "The current study found that ISCr (internal shorts) can be induced through deep overdischarge without mechanical destruction or foreign substances."
How does that help?
Redpacket said:
The critiqueofyour post #26is that itgave no hint to the reader that the precharge phaseis inherently dangerous and needs to be closely monitored and constrained (e.g. by time/temp limits) and, further, this point is highly nonobvious to most users.If you honestly believe that this is a"nitpicking detail" then our views on safety are so disparate that there is probably little hope for any furtherdialogue to be constructive.
Redpacket said:
What's "not helpful" isyourabove attempt to divert the discussion onto things never said. Nor is it polite to attempt to put your words into the mouth of others.
Your replies above (and elsewhere) are bordering on trolling. If that's not how you wish to be perceived thenI highly recommendthat you think more deeply about these matters before replying.
In the context of this thread, the OP is learning about cell testing.
Guiding them to a concept of a flowchart of how to best test cells is completely relevant.
So there's a part of it that's not "perfect".
You could have simply said, "yes a flowchart like that is great, just tweak the precharge current down, it looks a bit high there, might cause heating."
Instead we got excitable hype about explosions and "That's surely the most dangerous description of precharging that I've encountered in a few decades time."
"Anyone who cares about not losing body parts, homes, etc should care."
+ quotes about reverse charging making internal shorts.
Do you think responding to posts this way is good? You think I'm trolling?
To be clear: there are plenty of more dangerous ways of precharging like bump charging, high current charging, etc.
a) monitor cells for heating during charge (pre or main)
b) ideally time limit them
c) keep pre-charge current low
d) don't use cells you find under 1V, bin/recycle them
We all want to keep fine tuning cell testing "best practices".
We have to do this with DIY'ers in mind, limited budgets & learning along the way.
Firehosing barely related stuff at readers & responses like above are not helping this community, they're just annoying, distracting & make it harder for people to find concise answers.
So how about we focus on fine tuning DIY cell best practices and do it concisely & with less hype?
Would you like to contribute to a "best practice" cell testing flowchart?
Guiding them to a concept of a flowchart of how to best test cells is completely relevant.
So there's a part of it that's not "perfect".
You could have simply said, "yes a flowchart like that is great, just tweak the precharge current down, it looks a bit high there, might cause heating."
Instead we got excitable hype about explosions and "That's surely the most dangerous description of precharging that I've encountered in a few decades time."
"Anyone who cares about not losing body parts, homes, etc should care."
+ quotes about reverse charging making internal shorts.
Do you think responding to posts this way is good? You think I'm trolling?
To be clear: there are plenty of more dangerous ways of precharging like bump charging, high current charging, etc.
a) monitor cells for heating during charge (pre or main)
b) ideally time limit them
c) keep pre-charge current low
d) don't use cells you find under 1V, bin/recycle them
We all want to keep fine tuning cell testing "best practices".
We have to do this with DIY'ers in mind, limited budgets & learning along the way.
Firehosing barely related stuff at readers & responses like above are not helping this community, they're just annoying, distracting & make it harder for people to find concise answers.
So how about we focus on fine tuning DIY cell best practices and do it concisely & with less hype?
Would you like to contribute to a "best practice" cell testing flowchart?
@Redpacket Please stop beating a dead horse. I have already explained the correct, safe way to perform a precharge phase long ago in post #27. Did you somehow miss that?That should have been the end of it.
Btw, if you bother to actually read the flowchart that you posted then you will learn that it is inconsistent with the text you posted above it. Is that "great" too?
I have no interest whatsoever in discussing your personal opinions on the "greatness" of flowcharts, "hypeness" of safety warnings, "firehosing" of teaching, travels with "pixies", things that"annoy" or"irritate" youetc. These are all off-topic here. Please strive to stay focused.
Btw, if you bother to actually read the flowchart that you posted then you will learn that it is inconsistent with the text you posted above it. Is that "great" too?
I have no interest whatsoever in discussing your personal opinions on the "greatness" of flowcharts, "hypeness" of safety warnings, "firehosing" of teaching, travels with "pixies", things that"annoy" or"irritate" youetc. These are all off-topic here. Please strive to stay focused.
I've read both just fine thanks.gauss163 said:
Already explained why using a flow chart is good as a bigger concept, but seems over your head.
We've all long ago agreed the current should be less.
So a cell testing flow chart is off topic? Really? Not interested in developing safe cell best practice then?gauss163 said:
Oh the irony.gauss163 said:
Redpacket said:
Surely not, since you still don'tsee the obvious errors. I suppose I'll have to spell them out for you. Your text advisesnot to use cells < 1V, but your flowchart attempts to (unsafely!) precharge cells < 1Vtill "above 1V", at which point it does a capacity test, which is bizarre. Probably it intends to do that once they reach 3V, not 1V.It doesn't say what to do if they never reach 1V. I suggest you list the number for the fire department in that case, since you'll likely need it with that dangerous flowchart. There are also other problems with that flowchart, but I'll leave those for you to debug since you arethe self-proclaimed expert on flowcharts.
Normally I wouldn't waste my time on such nonsense, but since you went out of your way to emphasize how "great" your flowchart is, I could not in good faith let this greatly misleading remarkstand, since it could easily lead to beginners being injured.
Redpacket said:
Given that I've been professionally developing software for over 3decades, and have been involved in the design of some of the first (object-oriented) programming languages, and have taught many people how to program, and have helped Knuth with TAOCP, etc,it is extremely unlikely that there is anything that you could tell me about flowcharts that would be over my head.
Please stop the meta-level ramblings (and ad hominem attacks) and return to the topics at hand. If you need a flowchart to understand how to do that then let me know and I will gladly supply one.
Reasoning already provided.
Don't care what you do/used to do.
So here's something actually useful:
I've re-drawn a cell testing flow chart to update several parts to apparently current best practice.
Credit to the source of the original in post #26 (daromer I think)
If people have reasonable suggestions, happy to modify it.
Don't care what you do/used to do.
So here's something actually useful:
I've re-drawn a cell testing flow chart to update several parts to apparently current best practice.
Credit to the source of the original in post #26 (daromer I think)
If people have reasonable suggestions, happy to modify it.
^^^ That's better, but we should specify a 30 minute time limit for the precharge phase, and 100mA is ok (except for very small capacity cells, which aren't used in walls; generally it is recommended to limit precharge current to around 1/10 of the standard charge current).
Korishan
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The flowchart that was shown was created by daromer several years ago. Many references over the past few years have had newbies review it. After 1000's, if not 10's of 1000's of cells that have been processed by following the chart has there been an incident of an exploding cell or one that caught fire.
Is the flowchart perfect, no.
Can it be revised and amended to. yes
Will you add to the collective knowledge, or will you continue to berate others because they don't know as much as you do? we'll see
This forum is for "CONSTRUCTIVE" criticism. Not for bashing, berated, down casting, slandering, badgering, name calling, harassing, destructive criticism, or anything else of the sort. This bastardizing of the "facts" has gone on long enough and needs to stop. If you can't provide productive constructive information and provide factual evidence for said statements and cross referencing past posts of your own, then you can leave.
In this sense, the word "you" is to anyone who this applies. Altho, problem is, everyone that this "should" apply to will read it and think "Ohh, this doesn't apply to me". Well, if you think that, maybe you need to re-evaluate the information and perspective and contributions to this thread.
This particular thread has gone haywire long enough. I'm closing it. If a particular topic needs to be discussed in further detail to "clarify" positive statements, make a new thread and keep it respectable and adult.
Is the flowchart perfect, no.
Can it be revised and amended to. yes
Will you add to the collective knowledge, or will you continue to berate others because they don't know as much as you do? we'll see
This forum is for "CONSTRUCTIVE" criticism. Not for bashing, berated, down casting, slandering, badgering, name calling, harassing, destructive criticism, or anything else of the sort. This bastardizing of the "facts" has gone on long enough and needs to stop. If you can't provide productive constructive information and provide factual evidence for said statements and cross referencing past posts of your own, then you can leave.
In this sense, the word "you" is to anyone who this applies. Altho, problem is, everyone that this "should" apply to will read it and think "Ohh, this doesn't apply to me". Well, if you think that, maybe you need to re-evaluate the information and perspective and contributions to this thread.
This particular thread has gone haywire long enough. I'm closing it. If a particular topic needs to be discussed in further detail to "clarify" positive statements, make a new thread and keep it respectable and adult.
daromer
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Yes Close.
This is a DIY forum. Bashing things ver wont work and People will just stop ignoring safety advices.
IF we see that start to happen again we Will instantly Close that thread from now on. Its not about removing the safety as such but it should be directed in a way even beginners Will Read it.
This is a DIY forum. Bashing things ver wont work and People will just stop ignoring safety advices.
IF we see that start to happen again we Will instantly Close that thread from now on. Its not about removing the safety as such but it should be directed in a way even beginners Will Read it.
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