Help identifying Battery

Overmind

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That is a 3.6V (probably 2 or 3C current) cell manufactured by Henan Prospower Technologies LTD.

The 20 may indicate a 2000mAh capacity.
What capacity is the overall battery marked with ?
My bet is 2000.

Anyway, the cells should be of good quality and equivalent of any other good cells.

Here are the unclassified specs of the 2600mAh version of the similar cells:

2600mAh official tested specs
 

gauss163

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Overmind said:
[...] Anyway, the cells should be of good quality and equivalent of any other good cells.

Why do you believe that? Cells from non-top-tier manufacturers may be lower quality andpose higher safety risks.
 

Overmind

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You can't put junk in power-tools, unless you make pirate power-tools also.
 

gauss163

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^^^ It seems there may be a misunderstanding: your penultimate post seems to imply Prospower cells "should be of good quality...". If that's what you meant, then I'm curious to know what leads you to believe that (that was what I asked above).
 

Overmind

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Your assumption that Prospower's cells are not of top quality is incorrect.

The cells they make were designed to be used in various vehicles as priority.
They ended up in some power tools due to their good quality.

There are reviews of their batteries, like this one:

They are spread quite well and as far as I'm aware there are no significant incidents reported with their batteries or random lot/batch quality problems.

Nitecore and Olight use these cells for some of the re-labels they sell.
 

gauss163

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Overmind said:
Your assumption that Prospower's cells are not of top quality is incorrect.

There is no such assumption above - only general remarks.

Overmind said:
The cells they make were designed to be used in various vehicles as priority. They ended up in some power tools due to their good quality.

There are reviews of their batteries, like this one:

They are spread quite well and as far as I'm aware there are no significant incidents reported with their batteries or random lot/batch quality problems.

Nitecore and Olight use these cells for some of the re-labels they sell.

That youtube video is of little use for assessing the quality of a Li-ion cell manufacturer (note also the first comment there "Not really a review, you're sponsored by them"). Ditto for said Chinese relabeling claims. What power tools did you find ProsPower cells in? It would help to give some links supporting your claims since searching doesn't yield much, e.g. a google search on '"prospower" (nitecore OR olight)' returned only 2 (useless) results.

In general - if you care at all about safety - I recommend avoiding lower-tier cells. For an end-user it is usuallyimpossible to know how much more unsafe they may be compared to cells from top-tier manufacturers. Lower-tier companies may suffer various detriments: they may lack access to (proprietary) modern Li-ion tech such as safety improvements (e.g. chemistry tweaks, separator improvements, etc), and their production lines may cut corners and introduce metal contaminants that can lead to internal shorts, and they might even be using rejected or recycled cells, etc. There are some trustworthy middle-tier manufacturers, but generally it is difficult for an end-user to access reliable information certifying such. As such, one should be cautious harvesting cells from knock-off packs such as that in the OP.
 

Always learning

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Leebeaz said:
Hi I need some help Identifying the battery & specs of the battery in the image in the link below its a battery out of a knock off Dyson v6 battery

https://ibb.co/phF6sQ9
I Harvested the cells from my old Dyson V6 and they are different. Even the cells holder (or whatever name that plastic thing is called)was different. The cells holder in mine was white and the cells were light green with the reference:SE US18650VTC4 C4
 

gauss163

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^^^ Since yours is a genuine Dyson pack it is no surprise that it uses top tier (Sony) cells, unlike the OP's knock-off pack. It is quite rare that clones use top-tier cells.
 

OffGridInTheCity

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Found some pics - but all links to the batteries from the picsare non-functional - maybe its obsolete?. Here's the pics:

image_okpdlb.jpg


image_nqeixs.jpg


image_wxfrkv.jpg
 

Overmind

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@gauss163 top power tool makers only use Samsungs and Sony Vs, sometimes sanyos (older versions of batteries). I have never seen LGs in Milwaukee, DeWalt, Makita, Bosch. If they exist they are in pretty limited number. That does not mean LGs are not good.

Safety is fine as long as you respect the specs of the battery.
Fakes are another matter (like some unstable liitokalas).
The batteries in the current topic are not fakes, are just a smaller brand.

I found ProsPowers in DeWalt clones (made in Czech Republic which are actually pretty good for precision use and very cheap), Sterns and in some low-tier B&D (Black and Decker) sold in large shops.
 

gauss163

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Overmind said:
top power tool makers only use Samsungs and Sony Vs, sometimes sanyos (older versions of batteries). I have never seen LGs in Milwaukee, DeWalt, Makita, Bosch. If they exist they are in pretty limited number. That does not mean LGs are not good.

Why do you think someone would claim that means LGs are not good? Rather, the point I made above is simply that reputable manufacturers of Li-ion powered devices useonlytop-tier cells/packs. To refute that claim you'd need to find lower tier cells in a device by a reputable manufacturer.

Overmind said:
The batteries in the current topic are not fakes, are just a smaller brand.

In (American) English, such third-party (aftermarket) packs are usually called clones or fakes or counterfeits.It seems you have your own related definition of"smaller brand" - possiblymeaning something like "better quality clone". But I see no evidence above indicating why anyone should believe that Prospower is better quality among clones. Without any specific information indicating otherwise, generally clonesshould be regarded to beof lower-quality and higher safetyrisk than top-tier brands. To properly vet such lower-tier manufacturers typically requires access to (proprietary)information not available to end users (usually only provided to businesspartners).
 

Overmind

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Observations in general do not support implicitly labeling as lower-quality any cells not coming from the top manufacturers.

There are plenty of small Chinese companies that have their batteries in laptop OEMs and they worked fine, in fact they were good for years, comparable to any Sony/Sanyo/Samsung or LG found in laptops. I ripped-off quite a few hundred batteries myself and non-top brands were not below the general average. Some I still use today as repurposed (mostly Chinese-company made but also a few Canadian ones). My logic is that if they are there they are good enough to be there. If in the case of power tools, power tool clones may afford to use lower quality due to the lower requirements of the tool, I strongly doubt OEMs like Lenovo will use junk since batteries die fast as it is with original cells inside. Samsung 22Fs and LGs come at the top fastest dead batteries in the case of laptops, as far as my own personal stats and a few other's go.

So if you don'y like them, feel free to donate them. I'm sure many forum members can use them for many things.
 

gauss163

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^^^ But you have not given any evidence at all to support your claims that some lower-tier cells (in clones) are as good as top-tier cells. In particular, you have not given examples of any reputable companies who employ such lower-tier cells. That they seemed to work well for one person implies very little.
 

Overmind

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Saying something is not good it's an accusation. It's accusations that must be proven so that part falls on you.
 

gauss163

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Again, that's not what was said. Let's review:

You claimed in post #2 that the cells in the OP's knockoff pack "should be of good quality and equivalent of any other good cells".

I asked why you believe that, since cells from non-top-tier manufacturersmaybe lower quality and higher safety risks.

None of your subsequent posts provide anyevidence to support your above claim,

In the end, it seemsthat you believeit should be my responsibility to refute your unfounded claim.

But that's not a wise method to evaluate matters of safety andquality. If you assume by default that non-top-tier cells are safe and good quality then this will quickly prove problematic, since there are many well-known counterexamples (e.g. junk 10000mAh cells with thousands of rave reviews on eBay, exploding "hoverboard" packs, etc).

I think we should strive to be much more responsible when making such recommendations, because when they are wrong they could lead to much higher risks of injury.
 

Overmind

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The claim is not unfounded since I had such cells and was able to test them.

The risk of injury is identical to any of the Samsung, LG or top cells risk of the same chemistry.
 

gauss163

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^^^ That a few cells seemed fine to youimplies very little in the grand scheme of things. Generally lower-tier manufacturers suffer numerous deficiencies vs. top-tier.

For example, lower-tier companies may lack access to various (highly proprietary) chemistry and design enhancements that make the cells safer (and better performing). Nor do they have the funds to support R&D staff to develop their own enhancements.

They may also lack the funds to properly maintain adequate "clean room" environments to ensure that contaminants are not introduced during manufacture (a leading cause of internal shorts). Due to severe price competition in lower tiers, they may cut corners during QC, which leads to a higher chance of unhealthy and unsafe cells making it into the marketplace.

Many things can go wrong during the manufacture of Li-ion cells that can lead to serious safety risks. Indeed, the process is complex enough that even the top-tier manufacturers err from time-to-time, as recent severe problems during the manufacture of Samsung Galaxy Note 7 cells highlight. These were due to improper pouch size, which caused corner pinches leading to internal shorts, and also due to ultrasonic tab welding burrs (and lack of insulating tape) that led to separator piercing and internal shorts. Theodds of such mistakes greatly increase for cells from lower-tier manufacturers - who typically lack the funds, knowledge, and experienceto avoid such mistakes.

Not to mention that higher-tier companies have a reputation to uphold, so they will go to much greater efforts to remedy any problems (e.g. see the this video for the extensive analysis done by Samsung on said Galaxy battery failures - which is unprecedented in both its breadth and depth).

That's why when you tear down genuine laptop battery packs from reputable laptop manufacturers you find only cells from top-tier cell manufacturers.
 

Korishan

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Gauss: please when referring to YT videos you either enclose the video tag (Iu18CykEH9o) encapsulated in the [ youtube ][ /youtube ] embeds, or use the full url visible.

 
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