New batteries with 3x energy density of lithium

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ozz93666

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Feb 22, 2017
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341
Hmmm ...interesting , based on cheap sodium , cell voltage is 2.5... "charges in minutes not hours" ..."three times energy density if Li-ion" ...long life ...has a " solid-glass electrolyte"??? don't know how that works....

Sounds very promising ... I would bet the lithium owners will buy the patents and sit on them ... batteries are set to become a trillion $ industry , there will be secret moves to stop this , because there are no scarce resources in this new battery ...corporations cannot control it and keep the price high .
 

Rerouter

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Jan 1, 2017
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I would think they would still be prone to fire, even more reactivitly if the casing was breached, but venting would only occur if heated above the glass transition temperature of the electrolyte. still quite a few generic buzzwords mixed in without much hard data.

The below is from 2015

But the path he has chosen involves one of the toughest problems in battery science, which is how to make an anode out of pure lithium or sodium metal. If it can be done, the resulting battery would have 60% more energy than current lithium-ion cells. That would instantly catapult electric cars into a new head-to-head race with combustion. Over the years, numerous scientists have tried and failedit was lithium metal, for instance, that kept setting Stan Whittinghams lab on fire at Exxon in the 1970s.
Although Goodenough will not spell out his precise new idea, he thinks he is on to something. And, because of his record, the field knows that anyone would be foolhardy to bet against him. Hes very astute still. His mind is still cranking away, says Thackeray, the South African who invented manganese spinel under Goodenough, and now is at the USs Argonne National Laboratory. If there is going to be a breakthrough, it will come from left-field. And John comes from outside the box.
 

APD

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Jan 29, 2017
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Rerouter said:
I would think they would still be prone to fire, even more reactivitly if the casing was breached, but venting would only occur if heated above the glass transition temperature of the electrolyte. still quite a few generic buzzwords mixed in without much hard data.
Why do you think they are more prone to fire if you admittedly have no data?

Of course there is no hard data in a summary article, you have to go to the primary literature. Which is above the comprehension of most non-chemists.

If you followed the links, there are at least two peer reviewed journal articles on their work (probably many more, I haven't searched further)

http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2017/EE/C6EE02888H#!divAbstract
http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2017/EE/C6EE02888H#!divRelatedContent

Your un-cited quote kind of says the opposite of your comment, implying that he will succeed.

This guy is the inventor of Li-Ion batteries and has been doing this all his life. I have no doubt he has hundreds of publications and patents on battery chemistry. I dont know your background, but I would bet he has a lot more authority on the subject than you.
 

Rerouter

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Jan 1, 2017
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I did not say they will not succeed, like lithium exposure to atmosphere results in a strong reaction with this metal group (soduim), as you are storing more chemical energy in a metal that violently reacts to moisture in atmosphere, i would expect if punctured would still lead to a fire, and being a more reactive metal than lithium i would imagine more spectacular than normal lithium fires (possibly more like popcorn)

however based on the other properties of sodium (noting that it described a pure sodium anode or cathode,) which has a melting point of around 100C, and a higher thermal expansion coefficient than most metals used in the containers (double that of lithium) i feel early variants could have a risk of what would be comparable to venting. and with no liquid to take up the slack . Again, not saying it will not work, and more battery capacity makes all designers jobs easier, i just strongly doubt the reduced fire risk. and similar protections will need to be in place to keep them cool.
 

APD

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Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Messages
89
Rerouter said:
I did not say they will not succeed, like lithium exposure to atmosphere results in a strong reaction with this metal group (soduim), as you are storing more chemical energy in a metal that violently reacts to moisture in atmosphere, i would expect if punctured would still lead to a fire, and being a more reactive metal than lithium i would imagine more spectacular than normal lithium fires (possibly more like popcorn)

however based on the other properties of sodium (noting that it described a pure sodium anode or cathode,) which has a melting point of around 100C, and a higher thermal expansion coefficient than most metals used in the containers (double that of lithium) i feel early variants could have a risk of what would be comparable to venting. and with no liquid to take up the slack . Again, not saying it will not work, and more battery capacity makes all designers jobs easier, i just strongly doubt the reduced fire risk. and similar protections will need to be in place to keep them cool.

Perhaps this will help convince you. Here is a good video demo of puncture testing solid state lithium batteries:

 
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