harrisonpatm
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Do you filter for drinking, or just gray water?
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New & used Batteries, Solar, accessories, LifePo4 cells & more 5% Coupon "Powerwalls" www.batteryhookup.com
OffGridInTheCity
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Full house / drinking / full-pressure+flow - same as city water.
It's Roof -> 300gal Dry Flush -> Tanks -> 20micron filter -> 5micron filter -> Class A UV. City permit/inspected. Perfectly safe and tastes good - just a little bit of 'rain flavor' compared to more tasteless city water. No metals or contaminants (arsenic or other) that you might get out of various ground water sources.
Have 2 x motorized valves to a switch in the kitchen - easy to change between rain harvest and city water.
Change filters once a year. Change UV every 2 years. Throw in a little chlorine during stagnant 3 months of late summer after no rain/activity in tanks. 5+ years so far and pretty easy to maintain.
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OffGridInTheCity
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Water is perfectly clear and 5micron + Class A UV combination takes care of bacteria. Viruses from roof/rain don't seem to be 'bad' in general or a big issue. Discussions like this - https://www.passporthealthusa.com/2018/05/can-a-virus-spread-via-the-rain/
The biggest roof issue in our area is moss. Traditional removal every X years is to use 'moss killer' (something bad to drink) and wash it off with a hose. Haven't done that yet but if we need to, we can use our large 1st flush -> drain to bypass the water storage tanks as the roof is cleaned.
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1000kw-hunter
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A virus is killed by your uvc, not filtered out by your 5 micron filter.
Up to 5 micron you only filter out bacteria.
Viruses are 3 to 5 microns; bacteria are from 5 micron.
With rain harvest i have a similar approche, but my starting is a bit different.
I use a "koi pond" water filter as a first step.
Mostly for bird droppings and dead insects.
First there is a 300mq mash filter, free falling, i changed that to 600 for rainwater.
(if having trees nearby a 3000 mash is required to start).
The brushes and slow running circulation pump! will do the rest regarding dirt.
Next step is the bacteria material, to change the ammonia and nitriet into the harmless nitrate.
In the line after your water pump is a uvc licht, to kill off viruses, bacteria will be damaged by this not eliminated.
(To kill both 100% you will need a ozon filter(and a egg white extractor))(very expensive!)(or heat the water up to 65C most is dead, 80C all is dead)
Keep your water alive by running and oxygen pump.
So far so good and still cheap, pluming is more expensive.
1000L system requires 25w waterpump 25 watts oxygen pump and a 20-40 watts uvc unit.
(system is good for a 8500L koi pond)
To fill up your storage tank:
Get a 300--->130--->(80)22--->5-micron mechanical filters.
Run a extra uvc unit when filling and in all times keep your storage tank dark, cool and with moving water, oxygen ball will do fine.
(small pump and uvc)
5 microns can be before your tap.
300 micron is good enough for your toilet.
130 micron is good enough for your warm tap and shower water and washing machine.
5-3 micron is good for drinking water after uvc.
In this way you dont have to fiddle around with some tenth% per liter water with lye or chloor.
In this way you have to clean your systems filters once a year and your tanks depending on the use and efficient of your system 2 to 4 times a year.
My knowledge is coming from 40 years+ aquarium and pond keeper.
In my profile pic you see one of my smallest pet sturgeons, i had her over 25 years+ still miss them.
But this is my way, other ways can be good aswell or even better.
When living in a industrial area it is good to attach after the 600micron screen a straw filter to get rid of some metals, like iron and zinc.
Mostly depends on where you are located and the quality of rainwater you receive.
To start up your bacteria filter use a piece of bread, let nature do its thing, do not use those bacteria starters for pure clean drinking water.
If you want to have a full closed system, scale up, give it more time, create/implement a reed/algae filter and use "green/biodegradable" soaps
And no more chemicals in your toilet!
Test on regulair bases the full spectrum of water values, including the mineral spectrum
You want to get rid of nitrate.(also in your small system)
Maybe grow some lettuce or something?
Some hints for uvc light, dont let them burm with water standing still, they will heat up the water to much and change every two years.
Or if manufactory will specify something else.
I hope this was of help, my two cents.
PS English is NOT my native langue, so i could get some names wrong in the nitrogen circulair/cycle.
Units are in metric, sorry.
@OffGridInTheCity you are a inspiration as always, thank you and keep us updated, with all you do.
With best regards Igor.
Up to 5 micron you only filter out bacteria.
Viruses are 3 to 5 microns; bacteria are from 5 micron.
With rain harvest i have a similar approche, but my starting is a bit different.
I use a "koi pond" water filter as a first step.
Mostly for bird droppings and dead insects.
First there is a 300mq mash filter, free falling, i changed that to 600 for rainwater.
(if having trees nearby a 3000 mash is required to start).
The brushes and slow running circulation pump! will do the rest regarding dirt.
Next step is the bacteria material, to change the ammonia and nitriet into the harmless nitrate.
In the line after your water pump is a uvc licht, to kill off viruses, bacteria will be damaged by this not eliminated.
(To kill both 100% you will need a ozon filter(and a egg white extractor))(very expensive!)(or heat the water up to 65C most is dead, 80C all is dead)
Keep your water alive by running and oxygen pump.
So far so good and still cheap, pluming is more expensive.
1000L system requires 25w waterpump 25 watts oxygen pump and a 20-40 watts uvc unit.
(system is good for a 8500L koi pond)
To fill up your storage tank:
Get a 300--->130--->(80)22--->5-micron mechanical filters.
Run a extra uvc unit when filling and in all times keep your storage tank dark, cool and with moving water, oxygen ball will do fine.
(small pump and uvc)
5 microns can be before your tap.
300 micron is good enough for your toilet.
130 micron is good enough for your warm tap and shower water and washing machine.
5-3 micron is good for drinking water after uvc.
In this way you dont have to fiddle around with some tenth% per liter water with lye or chloor.
In this way you have to clean your systems filters once a year and your tanks depending on the use and efficient of your system 2 to 4 times a year.
My knowledge is coming from 40 years+ aquarium and pond keeper.
In my profile pic you see one of my smallest pet sturgeons, i had her over 25 years+ still miss them.
But this is my way, other ways can be good aswell or even better.
When living in a industrial area it is good to attach after the 600micron screen a straw filter to get rid of some metals, like iron and zinc.
Mostly depends on where you are located and the quality of rainwater you receive.
To start up your bacteria filter use a piece of bread, let nature do its thing, do not use those bacteria starters for pure clean drinking water.
If you want to have a full closed system, scale up, give it more time, create/implement a reed/algae filter and use "green/biodegradable" soaps
And no more chemicals in your toilet!
Test on regulair bases the full spectrum of water values, including the mineral spectrum
You want to get rid of nitrate.(also in your small system)
Maybe grow some lettuce or something?
Some hints for uvc light, dont let them burm with water standing still, they will heat up the water to much and change every two years.
Or if manufactory will specify something else.
I hope this was of help, my two cents.
PS English is NOT my native langue, so i could get some names wrong in the nitrogen circulair/cycle.
Units are in metric, sorry.
@OffGridInTheCity you are a inspiration as always, thank you and keep us updated, with all you do.
With best regards Igor.
OffGridInTheCity
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Update (it's been a couple of weeks):
State Farm (home insurance) offered renewal w/only normal yearly increase! Neighbors are satisfied / I think the overall event is now behind us in the raw emotional sense. What a great experience with State Farm - best recommendations from me.
Rainharvest 100% done / water system restored. Used a 1,000lb hand winch
and some straps against the PV array to maneuver the water tanks into place which worked better than expected - love it when a redneck hack works!
Shed roof in place and electrical restored. The TSP cleaner + vinegar + wire-brush the charcoal + Killz + open to air has gotten rid of the 'smoke smell'. Saved 80% of the original shed.
I'm thinking to finish shed siding and door (the firemen broke in) to protect the inside before moving on to solar. Solar vs Shed is very different and I need to concentrate / have a solar mindset when doing doing solar.
Really want to restore solar panels and it's getting closer
State Farm (home insurance) offered renewal w/only normal yearly increase! Neighbors are satisfied / I think the overall event is now behind us in the raw emotional sense. What a great experience with State Farm - best recommendations from me.
Rainharvest 100% done / water system restored. Used a 1,000lb hand winch
Shed roof in place and electrical restored. The TSP cleaner + vinegar + wire-brush the charcoal + Killz + open to air has gotten rid of the 'smoke smell'. Saved 80% of the original shed.
I'm thinking to finish shed siding and door (the firemen broke in) to protect the inside before moving on to solar. Solar vs Shed is very different and I need to concentrate / have a solar mindset when doing doing solar.
Really want to restore solar panels and it's getting closer
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OffGridInTheCity
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First 3s of panels producing power - exciting to restore even a little pit of the PV! (3 months since the fire).
Replaced the single gazebo panel with 2 x panels, 1st set on the ground array, and new combiner box.
Settled on parallel Unistrut with 10mm spacers to account for the different thickness of broken panels vs replacements.
Siding on the shed - ready for paint. Seems like the restoration is proceeding more quickly now.
Replaced the single gazebo panel with 2 x panels, 1st set on the ground array, and new combiner box.
Settled on parallel Unistrut with 10mm spacers to account for the different thickness of broken panels vs replacements.
Siding on the shed - ready for paint. Seems like the restoration is proceeding more quickly now.
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OffGridInTheCity
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Happy to share details when you're ready.
Frustrating this week... we're getting 110F days during this period and by 1pm the temp/sun heat the Unistrut, Panels, Nuts and Bolts so HOT I can't manipulate them without gloves - and I need bare hands to do the nuts/bolts!
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OffGridInTheCity
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Fire rebuild complete - everything destroyed has been replaced! Insurance money helped a lot as I could just order replacement stuff without budgeting - kudos again to State Farm. Would recommend having insurance to cover out structures on the property for a case like this.
Reminder of the day after the fire.....
Fences, Water Tanks, PV Array, Shed, and Neighbors restored.
FYI: TSP Cleaner + Vinegar 45% wipedown +Killz Paint + open-to-outdoors-several-weeks removed all fire smell from shed. ~20yrds of debris hauled to the dump to clean up the site.
Going forward... will be storing/running generator outside of shed (under the eave). May try a gen box to reduce noise. No more fuel storage by shed / under the solar panels! And finally, looking for a quieter generator - Champion open-frame is too loud for 'the city'.
TO DO....
* Install the 4th Midnite - only 75% of the panels are hooked up at this point. But the 4th Midnite is new, didn't exist before the fire so I'm putting 'the fire' to bed and moving on!
* Fix windows - outer pane cracked due to the heat from the propane 'torch'. Not leaking or anything but told *very expensive*? will get to it eventually.
MISC....
Some visible things left over from the fire - reminders to avoid future fire
and where the Firemen cut thru our fence from the street to access the back yard
Reminder of the day after the fire.....
Fences, Water Tanks, PV Array, Shed, and Neighbors restored.
FYI: TSP Cleaner + Vinegar 45% wipedown +Killz Paint + open-to-outdoors-several-weeks removed all fire smell from shed. ~20yrds of debris hauled to the dump to clean up the site.
Going forward... will be storing/running generator outside of shed (under the eave). May try a gen box to reduce noise. No more fuel storage by shed / under the solar panels! And finally, looking for a quieter generator - Champion open-frame is too loud for 'the city'.
TO DO....
* Install the 4th Midnite - only 75% of the panels are hooked up at this point. But the 4th Midnite is new, didn't exist before the fire so I'm putting 'the fire' to bed and moving on!
* Fix windows - outer pane cracked due to the heat from the propane 'torch'. Not leaking or anything but told *very expensive*? will get to it eventually.
MISC....
Some visible things left over from the fire - reminders to avoid future fire
and where the Firemen cut thru our fence from the street to access the back yard
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OffGridInTheCity
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Beyond 2,000 cycles! I've been pre-occupied but wanted to note that I've passed the landmark 2,000 cycle metric on the oldest 14s 2 x batteries with no sign of trouble.
Here's the battery / cycle distribution as of today. #1 and #2 are >2,000 cycles.
The 14 blue bars on the left are bat #1 (2,036 cycles), next 14 are bat #2 (2,020 cycles), and both seem to be keeping up with the rest right down the line.
By the end-of-year I'll have 4 of 9 batteries > 2,000 cycles.
Here's the battery / cycle distribution as of today. #1 and #2 are >2,000 cycles.
The 14 blue bars on the left are bat #1 (2,036 cycles), next 14 are bat #2 (2,020 cycles), and both seem to be keeping up with the rest right down the line.
By the end-of-year I'll have 4 of 9 batteries > 2,000 cycles.
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OffGridInTheCity
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Midnite #4 (and #5) + Chargeverter #2 Installed. PV restored to 100%. Went from 14.5kw (3 x Midnites) to 15.2kw (4 x Midnites) - a bit of a boost and cooler wiring after rebuilding from the fire
Showing all 5 Midnites....
30a wall socket and fan for #4 and #5 on order.
Midnite #5 wired ready to go but needs some PV! I've got 6 left over mono panels (~2kw)... just need to convince the wife they'll look good on the fence
Dashboard snap at 11:15am. Roof array is line #1 and #2. The new ground array is #3 and #4.
Chargerverters....
I've found that I can set the Chargerverters and 'leave them on' and just fire up the generator outside and charging will commence automatically - so now I can run either the bigger 240v generator(s) or the smaller 120v generator(s) without having to go back and forth. Just fire up the generator and charging will commence. The Chargeverters do 'soft start' charging / slowly ramp up so no need to worry about generator warming up etc.
TMI: Forgot how much effort it can be run wire in EMT conduit, stuff it all into boxes, and hook it all up.
Showing all 5 Midnites....
30a wall socket and fan for #4 and #5 on order.
Midnite #5 wired ready to go but needs some PV! I've got 6 left over mono panels (~2kw)... just need to convince the wife they'll look good on the fence
Dashboard snap at 11:15am. Roof array is line #1 and #2. The new ground array is #3 and #4.
Chargerverters....
I've found that I can set the Chargerverters and 'leave them on' and just fire up the generator outside and charging will commence automatically - so now I can run either the bigger 240v generator(s) or the smaller 120v generator(s) without having to go back and forth. Just fire up the generator and charging will commence. The Chargeverters do 'soft start' charging / slowly ramp up so no need to worry about generator warming up etc.
TMI: Forgot how much effort it can be run wire in EMT conduit, stuff it all into boxes, and hook it all up.
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OffGridInTheCity
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Closing the loop - the whole point of running the generator in the shed was for noise! This turned into a disaster to say the least. So..... instead of using a shed to quiet a generator, how about running a quieter generator 'in the open' and at a better location? The Champion was producing 70dBA at property line even when in the shed - just horrible!
So I got a Honda eu7000is and while not as powerful (or duel fuel) as the Champion 8000w it can do 80a on the Chargeverter - it's hands-down the quietest for 5000w continuous. It also has a long-life legacy which I hope holds true for the future - my eu3000is is 23yrs old and is working great.
Here's a visual of the generator run locations - I have wiring to the Chargeverters at both places now. In front of shed and sort of under the deck (it's not actually under but on the lower level - so no trouble with fumes etc) and is bounded a bit by the stone retaining walls.
Sound measurements. #1 thru #4 are the neighbor property lines! #5 is street side (no big deal) and #6 is up on deck just outside our door.
Look at these Honda numbers at the neighbors - the green line. Only about 10dBA above the base noise level. The 70dBA outside our deck door is doable - especially for the sake of not worrying about the neighbors!
And then, look at the Champion Model 100297 8000w numbers - 10-15dBA increase - is on the order of twice as loud as I understand it.
I did find a propane conversion kit for the Honda - assembling the pieces now.
So I got a Honda eu7000is and while not as powerful (or duel fuel) as the Champion 8000w it can do 80a on the Chargeverter - it's hands-down the quietest for 5000w continuous. It also has a long-life legacy which I hope holds true for the future - my eu3000is is 23yrs old and is working great.
Here's a visual of the generator run locations - I have wiring to the Chargeverters at both places now. In front of shed and sort of under the deck (it's not actually under but on the lower level - so no trouble with fumes etc) and is bounded a bit by the stone retaining walls.
Sound measurements. #1 thru #4 are the neighbor property lines! #5 is street side (no big deal) and #6 is up on deck just outside our door.
Look at these Honda numbers at the neighbors - the green line. Only about 10dBA above the base noise level. The 70dBA outside our deck door is doable - especially for the sake of not worrying about the neighbors!
And then, look at the Champion Model 100297 8000w numbers - 10-15dBA increase - is on the order of twice as loud as I understand it.
I did find a propane conversion kit for the Honda - assembling the pieces now.
Korishan
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Change the exhaust/muffler on the generator and you can drop the noise level drastically. It's only noisy because hot air is coming out and rapidly expanding. Pre-expand the gasses before they leave the exhaust system and/or pre-cool them them so they don't expand so much when they exit.
I'll be doing this with the Troy-Bilt 5500 I have. It'll be stored next to the Power Shed. Also will be doing the propane conversion. I already have the starter and starter ring to install. This way I can tie it all together with Home Assistant and start the generator when voltages get below set limits.
I'll be doing this with the Troy-Bilt 5500 I have. It'll be stored next to the Power Shed. Also will be doing the propane conversion. I already have the starter and starter ring to install. This way I can tie it all together with Home Assistant and start the generator when voltages get below set limits.
Wolf
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There are several reasons the Honda generators are very quiet, and it is all due to design.
You see the $800 variety, Briggs & Stratton, Generac, Craftsman, Champion, Troy Built, etc. are pure AC generators. Household AC is very unforgiving. It demands that the generator run at 3600rpm (or potentially 1800rpm) and cannot waver lest you fall away from the 60Hz target.
Also most of these motors are slapped together on a wing and a prayer with tolerances you could drive a truck through. There is no research on how to make them quiet as it is not needed people still buy them, especially when they are out of power.
On the other hand Honda, Yamaha, and some other companies do spend a lot of research money on noise elimination.
Honda generators do run at a lower RPM as they are inverter style generators. They produce an AC voltage rectify it to DC and then invert it to 120 or 240 60Hz. They also tune their intake runner, exhaust, cylinder cooling fins, and of course very tight tolerances so the motor doesn't sound like a bucket of bolts rattling in a dump truck. Basically, using noise cancellation technology. Much more than just a muffler. The intake is tuned to the exhaust 180° out of phase so they cancel as much noise as possible with the cylinder cooling fins acting like a tuning fork.
With Honda generators you get what you pay for, if maintained properly a very reliable quiet power source.
BTW I do NOT work for Honda. I do own (2) 3.0 V6 Accord EX coupes though, 1998 and 2002. The 3.0 motors that has no known problems or defects.
And now you know the rest of the story.
Wolf
You see the $800 variety, Briggs & Stratton, Generac, Craftsman, Champion, Troy Built, etc. are pure AC generators. Household AC is very unforgiving. It demands that the generator run at 3600rpm (or potentially 1800rpm) and cannot waver lest you fall away from the 60Hz target.
Also most of these motors are slapped together on a wing and a prayer with tolerances you could drive a truck through. There is no research on how to make them quiet as it is not needed people still buy them, especially when they are out of power.
On the other hand Honda, Yamaha, and some other companies do spend a lot of research money on noise elimination.
Honda generators do run at a lower RPM as they are inverter style generators. They produce an AC voltage rectify it to DC and then invert it to 120 or 240 60Hz. They also tune their intake runner, exhaust, cylinder cooling fins, and of course very tight tolerances so the motor doesn't sound like a bucket of bolts rattling in a dump truck. Basically, using noise cancellation technology. Much more than just a muffler. The intake is tuned to the exhaust 180° out of phase so they cancel as much noise as possible with the cylinder cooling fins acting like a tuning fork.
With Honda generators you get what you pay for, if maintained properly a very reliable quiet power source.
BTW I do NOT work for Honda. I do own (2) 3.0 V6 Accord EX coupes though, 1998 and 2002. The 3.0 motors that has no known problems or defects.
And now you know the rest of the story.
Wolf
OffGridInTheCity
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The eu7000is already has a muffler - something like this I presume - https://www.ebay.com/itm/266515454308
I don't find anything other than the above when googling on eu7000is and muffler - did you know of something specific for this generator or was this more of a general comment.
I have worked with aggreko on ships before. Whisper quiet when standing next to one. If you could copy one with their noise insulation, you would have a winner noise wise. These units house meaty diesel generators and i swear you cannot hear it 10 feet away. Good luck with your continuing ventures
Korishan
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You have to manufacture it. Not something already premade. Most of the exhaust flanges are pretty close to the same so you could get a pipe fitment and make your own multi-segmented baffle. If you can attach to the existing muffler instead of replacement that'd be great as you wouldn't need to modify anything on the genny. Since you'd just be making an expander, press fitting against the existing muffler would probably be fine as you aren't containing the gases in confinement, just giving them a place to go to expand/cool on their own then let out afterwards.
OffGridInTheCity
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Ah. The Champion exhaust was very loud as it came out of the shed. I built a baffle box with 2" Rockwool on all sides and baffles inside the box with 3 chambers and it did significantly reduce the 'raw noise'.
Here's a pic of the uncovered exhaust thimble (that apparently caused the fire)... and a partial pic of the preliminary baffle box experiment. I don't have a pic of the finished one but it was 3 x longer than the experimental one below. Had about 2" slot in the baffles for exhaust to flow. Internal diameter (after 2" of rockwool on all sides) as about 8"? Overall length was ~24"? The exhaust seemed to flow easily.
However, with Honda 55 dBA numbers at the property line under 5000w load (and the 'shed disaster' experience) I'm going to call it good and just run the unmodified Honda near the Deck and in the open. At 55 dBA I can run without annoying the neighbors.
----------------------------------------------------------
This whole generator / propane 'thing' now seems like some poor thinking on my part to try to heat the house in 4 months of winter and low PV. I'm rethinking things revolving around....
1) DIY Generator is not practical for whole-house but rather for small, emergency power -> batteries for lights/computers. Order of magnitude less fuel storage letting go of the heat issue.
2) Moving to wood, forced air backup furnace, professionally installed/permitted smokestack! Something like this. I have a location where I can pipe in the heat - no need for complicated integration with existing ductwork.
Instead of stockpiling propane or trying to bury a 500gal tank in the yard I can take advantage of the Pacific Northwest I live in. We have wood everywhere! I can harvest firewood myself by driving 10min out of town into the woods. Store maybe 1/2 cord (less fire risk) on site and then for 'the big one' I can forage for burnables or harvest firewood.
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