Portable 18650 pack to run 12v 70w water pump

[ng.sa]

G'Day Guys

I have searched on this forum and in bing and google without much joy. I can find cases that will take 60x18650. but no batteries supplied with the cases !!!

I'm a newbie and I know this forum is about DIY etc. I would be happy to pay for a portable 18650 power pack or build oneso I dont have to move the lead acid battery which I charge with a PV panel ( I mounted it on workshop roof )around my place. I live in rural SA ( Barossa ) and H2O management is a lot of effort especiallythis time of yearmoving H2O from rain water tanks to IBC etc. so the boss can water the garden

I have scrounged a few 18650 from laptops etc. and I have got them balanced, but 8 are not enought to power the pump ->https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/252702382215

H E L P !!!

TIA

 

[Korishan]

Well, there are several people who have built portable storage cases. Some use camera cases, others using hard cased luggage, and others large tool cases.
That pump will take a 4s pack just fine. I have one, actually. I got mine from Rural King, which is a cheap outlet like Harbor Freight (here in the US). The pump will supply a pretty good pressure. I haven't tested beyond 3 sprayer nozzles, though.
I actually use mine to spray water on to the evaporator coils on the air conditioning unit to remove heat faster and make the uni more efficient. Worked pretty good last year running 12hrs straight every day for about 3 months.

 

[ng.sa]

G'Day Korishan

Thanks for the prompt reply

Your setup sounds amazing, I would like to be able to power my work shop with 18650s, an inverter to charge cordless batts.tools and a PV panel.

I'm a bit confused about your reply of"4s pack" - do you mean 4 x 18650s in series ?

I have tried 8 x in series & the pump was "no go" !!!

I'm have beenthinking about buying an eBike that is poweredby 18650s and starting my power wall journey their as I'm not having much luck, but with a little help I might be able to get this pump working & get some confidence.

TIA

NG

 

[Korishan]

4s = 4 cells in series = 16.8V max. Putting 8 cells in series would be 33V, which is way too much for a 12V pump.

Those pumps have an internal regulator that if too much voltage goes to them, they shut down. It's possible it was the thermal overload that got tripped immediately, but not sure.
Try using only 3 or 4 cells in series (4s will give you better performance from the pump as it'll draw less amps to run)

 

[ng.sa]

G'Day Korishan

I'm guessing you are on the money there !!!

I should have started with less batteries rather than more

So your Bats. are 4.1v each, some of mine are / were 1.5v, all of them were from very old laptop bats. I going to have to bit the bullet and buy new ones, the pump is a good excuse, from what I have read unlike USA it is very difficult to find 18650s in a retail store in Oz and if you can find they are $20/each.

Lots for sale on eBay, but when you ask the seller to weight 1 they ignore you.

Any tips for buying 18650s online, I have seen a few suggestions on ebike forums, but these sites dont ship to Oz.

 

[Korishan]

If the cells you were using were less than 2.5V, then it is very likely that when you connected them to the pump, the voltage load drop put the whole string below 12V, probably closer to 9V or so. Especially if you used cells that were below 2V.

To test the pump motor, take a computer PSU and connect the Black/Yellow wires to the pump. This is actually how I powered mine and it ran without problems. Wires didn't heat up at all and it ran for hours a day.

 

[DarkRaven]

You should probably test and charge the cells before you try to use them. It sounds as if you've tried to run the pump on empty cells. Once they are properly tested and charged you can run the pump, which is specced for 9-14.4V, from a 3s and maybe even a 4s setup. To get 70W from used laptop batteries you need some in parallel as well. Maybe try it with a 3s6p battery, 18 cells in total, if you have that much and they are all good. This will also prevent a potentially big voltage drop as mentioned by Korishan. 70W from three or four laptop cells will overload them, even if they were new.

And also, you don't have to buy 18650s if you can't get them easily, any other format will do as well if they are easier to find. If everything fails, get a 12V lead acid battery.

 

[rev0]

You should probably test and charge the cells before you try to use them. It sounds as if you've tried to run the pump on empty cells. Once they are properly tested and charged you can run the pump, which is specced for 9-14.4V, from a 3s and maybe even a 4s setup. To get 70W from used laptop batteries you need some in parallel as well. Maybe try it with a 3s6p battery, 18 cells in total, if you have that much and they are all good. This will also prevent a potentially big voltage drop as mentioned by Korishan. 70W from three or four laptop cells will overload them, even if they were new.

And also, you don't have to buy 18650s if you can't get them easily, any other format will do as well if they are easier to find. If everything fails, get a 12V lead acid battery.

Depends on the laptop, I've got a Gigabyte Aero 14 at work with a 100WH battery (LiPo type), and it can pull about 100W under GPU + CPU stress:





Older laptops are probably actually designed to handle more power draw since the CPUs were not as efficient. My old Dell Inspiron 5150 had a CPU alone with an 88W TDP:https://ark.intel.com/products/2736...g-HT-Technology-1M-Cache-3_06-GHz-533-MHz-FSB

 

[ng.sa]

And also, you don't have to buy 18650s if you can't get them easily, any other format will do as well if they are easier to find. If everything fails, get a 12V lead acid battery.

G'Day DarkRaven

I hear you mate, I have been dragging the Lead acid around for approx. 12 months now, so the idea of a 4 x 18650 waterproof container is a lot less 'heavy'

Plus I have bought a few '18650 things' online overnight so I really dont want to change course at this stage and I dont want to give in !!!

I have found this - >https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/152813932423

I'm wondering how hard it would be to change it to a anderson plug ?

 

[brwainer]

You should probably test and charge the cells before you try to use them. It sounds as if you've tried to run the pump on empty cells. Once they are properly tested and charged you can run the pump, which is specced for 9-14.4V, from a 3s and maybe even a 4s setup. To get 70W from used laptop batteries you need some in parallel as well. Maybe try it with a 3s6p battery, 18 cells in total, if you have that much and they are all good. This will also prevent a potentially big voltage drop as mentioned by Korishan. 70W from three or four laptop cells will overload them, even if they were new.

And also, you don't have to buy 18650s if you can't get them easily, any other format will do as well if they are easier to find. If everything fails, get a 12V lead acid battery.

Depends on the laptop, I've got a Gigabyte Aero 14 at work with a 100WH battery (LiPo type), and it can pull about 100W under GPU + CPU stress:





Older laptops are probably actually designed to handle more power draw since the CPUs were not as efficient. My old Dell Inspiron 5150 had a CPU alone with an 88W TDP:https://ark.intel.com/products/2736...g-HT-Technology-1M-Cache-3_06-GHz-533-MHz-FSB

I have the same laptop (Aero 14 with 1060) and I haven't delved deeply into the battery, but I do know that what it is showing you doesn't add up. 97W with 91Wh remaining means it would only run for about an hour to empty, but that is showing you 6h13m to empty? or is that 6m13s? either way, that time remaining doesn't make sense with that load. Something is wrong. Maybe because you had just started it, the time remaining metric is being based on a recent average instead of the current load?

 

[DarkRaven]

Depends on the laptop, I've got a Gigabyte Aero 14 at work with a 100WH battery (LiPo type), and it can pull about 100W under GPU + CPU stress:

Sure, but LiPo cells are are completely different matter, and my math was just based on the simplified example that 5A is already alot for a laptop 18650 cell, i.e. a capacity cell, even when new and especially when used. I know that there are exceptions but this is just about a simplified rule of thumb.

And also, you don't have to buy 18650s if you can't get them easily, any other format will do as well if they are easier to find. If everything fails, get a 12V lead acid battery.

G'Day DarkRaven

I hear you mate, I have been dragging the Lead acid around for approx. 12 months now, so the idea of a 4 x 18650 waterproof container is a lot less 'heavy'

Plus I have bought a few '18650 things' online overnight so I really dont want to change course at this stage and I dont want to give in !!!

I have found this - >https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/152813932423

I'm wondering how hard it would be to change it to a anderson plug ?

Sure, you don't have to give in, just saying that there are alternatives available. But if you want to stick to the 18650 format then this is totally fine and we can work with that.

But forget the idea that you can get away with using only four cells if they are reclaimed laptop cells. It simply will not work properly or even not at all. If you want to use them, as I said, test them, find 18 of roughly same capacity, and make a 3s6p battery. It will have a matching voltage for the pump and if they have passed your tests (discharge test at 1A) then they will be able to handle the load when running the pump.

The box you have found on eBay isn't really helpful. As I said, four cells isn't enough and this looks like a 2s2p setup so you won't have enough voltage nor current. This won't get you anywhere.

 

[rev0]

You should probably test and charge the cells before you try to use them. It sounds as if you've tried to run the pump on empty cells. Once they are properly tested and charged you can run the pump, which is specced for 9-14.4V, from a 3s and maybe even a 4s setup. To get 70W from used laptop batteries you need some in parallel as well. Maybe try it with a 3s6p battery, 18 cells in total, if you have that much and they are all good. This will also prevent a potentially big voltage drop as mentioned by Korishan. 70W from three or four laptop cells will overload them, even if they were new.

And also, you don't have to buy 18650s if you can't get them easily, any other format will do as well if they are easier to find. If everything fails, get a 12V lead acid battery.

Depends on the laptop, I've got a Gigabyte Aero 14 at work with a 100WH battery (LiPo type), and it can pull about 100W under GPU + CPU stress:





Older laptops are probably actually designed to handle more power draw since the CPUs were not as efficient. My old Dell Inspiron 5150 had a CPU alone with an 88W TDP:https://ark.intel.com/products/2736...g-HT-Technology-1M-Cache-3_06-GHz-533-MHz-FSB

I have the same laptop (Aero 14 with 1060) and I haven't delved deeply into the battery, but I do know that what it is showing you doesn't add up. 97W with 91Wh remaining means it would only run for about an hour to empty, but that is showing you 6h13m to empty? or is that 6m13s? either way, that time remaining doesn't make sense with that load. Something is wrong. Maybe because you had just started it, the time remaining metric is being based on a recent average instead of the current load?

It only calibrates for full discharges. I just started a video editing session and GPU stress test to demonstrate the power draw, it was only running a minute or two. For these types of loads you need to remember a laptop battery is usually already a 2-3p3s configuration, so the current is split between 2-3 cells.

 

[brwainer]

It only calibrates for full discharges. I just started a video editing session and GPU stress test to demonstrate the power draw, it was only running a minute or two. For these types of loads you need to remember a laptop battery is usually already a 2-3p3s configuration, so the current is split between 2-3 cells.

OK, Ive only recently used Linux on my Aero 14, and it calculates time remaining on its own, it dosnt trust what the BMS reports aside from capacity and current draw. I think this is because there are so many BMSs out there and not all report time remaining - Ive had plenty fo Windows laptops that didnt do it.

 

[ng.sa]

G'Day Guys

I have found this web site and a Motorcycle battery kit -> http://www.a123rc.com/goods-132-Mot...po4+A123+System+ANR26650M1A+12V69AH+4S3P.html

Works out to be approx. $200AUD, so pretty expensive, but it has the anderson plug and this is gr8 for me as I have APs on all of my camping and 4x4gear.

As I have a CBR600 & a WR450 I can use this kit for them as well as pull it apart and see how it is made

However, the web master must be on Holzs !!!

I have setup 3 x account using different email addresses incl. a gmail acct., but never got the 'validation email' to any account, I have ordered a bat. kit, but cannot see how I pay for it, you dont pay when you order.

Anyone else bought from a123rc ?

TIA

 

[floydR]

avast web shield has blocked a threat
infection url:mal
for a123rc.com/goods-132-Motorcyc...+4S3P.html
using firefox 58.0.2 on my mac
could be nothing or it could be that the site is known to have malware on it. I would check my computer .
later floyd

 

[rev0]

A quick googling found some people saying they sell fake A123 cells. I'm sure they're okay LiFePo4s but if that matters to you I'd stay away.

 

[Geek]

avast web shield has blocked a threat
infection url:mal
for a123rc.com/goods-132-Motorcyc...+4S3P.html
using firefox 58.0.2 on my mac
could be nothing or it could be that the site is known to have malware on it. I would check my computer .
later floyd

I have seen Avast jump on several URLs that had no infection in them at all. Not saying if that site is safe or not. But it can happen where any virus scanner detects a false positive.

 

[ng.sa]

Guys


I use nortons and that has not said any issue with this site

A quick googling found some people saying they sell fake A123 cells. I'm sure they're okay LiFePo4s but if that matters to you I'd stay away.

G'Day Rev0

I did see that as well, but I cant find any other site that sells "A123 cells", do you know any other sellers ?

I was going to have a look at LFPs as these seemed to bewhat is more commonin eBikes and someone else suggest I should look at bats other than 18650s

 

[floydR]

Try not to limit yourself to one brand, A123 is a brand of lifepo4 cells 26650,Prismatic,etc.

Later floyd

 

[DarkRaven]

Well, the thing about A123 cells is that they are very popular among certain people (and companies for that matter) because they are rated for a very high continuous current output. If you need that sort of thing you want A123 cells and original ones and it is important for you because otherwise it won't work properly (or build something for a customer and it won't work properly which is even worse). That's where this comes from and you will probably have issues finding cells similar to the A123 26650.