Questionable VTC6 version

-Lu+

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Aug 29, 2018
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:sHi everyone.

Today I bought 4x VTC6 cells from a reliable shop here in my town. However, I still do not trust this cells and I don't have the correct equipment to test them.
I noticed the weird detail when I already came back home, that the + pole of the battery has 4 leg design instead of 3 legs like always.

When I called the shopback they told me that its the newest batch of VTC6 made in quartal-4 of 2018, and that they are now 4 legs on the + pole.However, I'm stil doubtful.
My MC-3000 measures all of the cells 3000+ mAh like rated, but I don't have a way to test the battery with some serious AMPs, like 15A for example.

Did anyone of you by some VTC6s like this, or heard of an update?


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-Lu+

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Aug 29, 2018
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Ok, I could not resist, so I have cut one open.
It has a double-wrapping to cheat like it's printed on the body. The cell itself is a no-name no-infocell of unknown origin.?The insulator was glued.
It looks exactly like some GIF/GTF/Ultrafire I used to cut open out of curiosity.
It must be a YikLik or similar chinese manufacturer, 3000mAh low on ampsare easy to make these days obviously.

Anyone buying VTC6s, BEWARE!


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Geek

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I would be inclined to ask for a refund. At the very least let the seller know. It is scary how close some fakes can be. It certainly leaves room for some dangerous situations.
 

LithiumSolar

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Geek said:
I would be inclined to ask for a refund. At the very least let the seller know. It is scary how close some fakes can be. It certainly leaves room for some dangerous situations.

Also, if the seller is reputable like the poster said, he likely doesn't know their counterfeit and does not want to be liable should they start causing fires.
 

hbpowerwall

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IF you don't have a way to test - lets rally the community in your area to see if we can get them capacity tested for you!
 

-Lu+

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Just a quick update:
This situation caused quiet a shitshow for the seller.
It's a chain of suppliers and suppliers where someone in the chain did not notice.
Now they are figuring out where did the fake batteries come from. They were definitely not aware. They refunded immediately.


Also, EVERYONE BEWARE FROM BATTERIES SHIPPING FROM GREECE.
This is especially important for European buyers because we have problems with li-ion airline regulations.
There are a few sellers on ebay selling allegedly genuine batteries (also, genuine on the photos) and they are shipping worldwide, and EUROPE-wide from GREECE.
they are actually Chinese sellers who ship batteries from a warehouse in a port in Greece, which is owned by a Chinese company (I checked everything)

I have tried them all, out of curiosity, and all 3 times received fake batteries, and very very SNEAKY fake. Samsung 25R and LG HG2 are almost impossible to recognise without a tester.
The HG2 is some other also genuine LG cell but cheaper (about 2900mAh) which can barely put out 10A. The samsung 25R is actually a rewrapped 26F, which is a terrible performer compared to 25R.
The VTC6 however, as you see, it obvious to spot.

I urge to European ebay shoppers, to shop batteries from German sellers, at least they never sent me a fake.
 

Geek

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-Lu+ said:
Just a quick update:
This situation caused quiet a shitshow for the seller.
It's a chain of suppliers and suppliers where someone in the chain did not notice.
Now they are figuring out where did the fake batteries come from. They were definitely not aware. They refunded immediately.


Also, EVERYONE BEWARE FROM BATTERIES SHIPPING FROM GREECE.
This is especially important for European buyers because we have problems with li-ion airline regulations.
There are a few sellers on ebay selling allegedly genuine batteries (also, genuine on the photos) and they are shipping worldwide, and EUROPE-wide from GREECE.
they are actually Chinese sellers who ship batteries from a warehouse in a port in Greece, which is owned by a Chinese company (I checked everything)

I have tried them all, out of curiosity, and all 3 times received fake batteries, and very very SNEAKY fake. Samsung 25R and LG HG2 are almost impossible to recognise without a tester.
The HG2 is some other also genuine LG cell but cheaper (about 2900mAh) which can barely put out 10A. The samsung 25R is actually a rewrapped 26F, which is a terrible performer compared to 25R.
The VTC6 however, as you see, it obvious to spot.

I urge to European ebay shoppers, to shop batteries from German sellers, at least they never sent me a fake.



WOW! That is a tremendous amount of effort to sell fake batteries. Good to know too.

Makes you wonder, how many fakes are out there.
 

thunderheart

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Reminds me debates about LiitoKala and Varicore "for Samsung", "for Panasonic" cells' authencity))
 

-Lu+

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thunderheart said:
Reminds me debates about LiitoKala and Varicore "for Samsung", "for Panasonic" cells' authencity))

When you mention that, are those real actually? I see "LiitoKala" and "GTF" and "VariCore" batteries which actually look like genuine samsung, LG or panasonic, they just have a small sticker with the QR code on them... are those real? According to price, they seem real? They have a price like all 100% genuinewhole-sale shops around Europe.
Or are they neither fake or real, but some factory rejects or similar?
 

BlueSwordM

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Oh you meant this thread by me?

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Well let's just say they are committing fraud, for three reasons:

1. Let's take the "Liitokala" 30Q name first. Up until last year, they had the Samsung 30Q name, until they changed out the titles to their own brand, as in this link(DO NOT BUY):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pcs-Original-Battery-INR18650-30Q
We discovered the reason for why they did this change is that they wanted to be able to not give out refunds to us people who bought the cells from the site.
Which is basically bullcrap, as noted by some customers who weren't able to refund their fake cells. Look at the title: Litokala Original 18650 3000mah Battery INR18650 30Q

No mention of Samsung anywhere, so they can claim any kind of crap, and Aliexpress doesn't seem to give a crap either.

2. A real Samsung 30Q only has three legs on its positive terminal. The one linked above doesn't. It has 4.

3. Some internal resistance testing by one user indicates that the cell that was sold by the Liitokala stores were not 3000mAh 20A cells, rather 3000mAh 10A cells.

In addition to this, in recent events, some of their cells have very high self-discharge rates, high internal resistance, lower capacity than 20A models.

TLDR: Don't buy from any of the Liitokala Aliexpress stores...

Edit: They are still selling fakes cells. Never mind.
 

-Lu+

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BlueSwordM said:
1. Let's take the "Liitokala" 30Q name first. Up until last year, they had the Samsung 30Q name, until they changed out the titles to their own brand, as in this link(DO NOT BUY):
http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bASsf92Y

Oh yes, this is a very well obvious fraud. I've come by these while browsing aliexpress a lot. But these are not those that confuse me, but for example these:
http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/2VaWG6G

When I look at these they appear to be completely fine. The little thing that gives me doubt is the partially covered "Samsung" letters, where only "sung" is visible. I ordered a few pcs of these, if they ever come I will update this thread with info asap.

I never buy anything that is not a pure Chinese product on aliexpress. This is the first time I bought somethig that is supposed to be "brand name" just out of curiosity. I use aliexpress mainly for batteries that are only made in China anyway... like 16340 and 26650 size.

Also, I don't wanna sound like a hater or something... but... aliexpress is the worst service ever. Worst, slowest support with intelligence-insulting communication and everything worst. I have like 5 disputes open from total 10 orders... and I feel like talking to baboons. Bizzare.
 

BlueSwordM

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-Lu+

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BlueSwordM said:
I wouldn't even touch these cells. A 94,6% rating is not really good.

I only know 3 stores which sell genuine cells on Aliexpress(and two that I've bought from and tested the cells, which were genuine in terms of capacity+internal resistance):

Sunway store: http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/ce7Y3krI

Aliya Store: http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bntB5pKC

Lucky's electronic store: http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/co8l5Fpm

And of course, for low quantities, I would recommend *****'s website: https://*****.com/international-orders/

LOL, could you please PM me the last site? It's censored for some reason. I've tried to guess but maybe I was too dirty hahahaha
The aliexpress stores you sent me have very few choices of batteries, also none of them ships to europe due to airline regulations :(
In my experience, some fake HG2s and 25Rs easily passed my capacity and internal resistance test. Both excellent results (good fakes), but they failed miserably on high-drain test, barely putting out 10A, and died on 15A. The wild thing is, a 10A battery is a good battery... these fakes are becoming wild. Very wild.
 

BlueSwordM

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By internal resistance, I mean I tested them at 2 methods:

1. Internal resistance of the 30Q from Sunway store was the same as the legit 30Qs, so no problem there. This was done with a 4-wire DC method with a battery holder with BeCu springs, and not the usual charger IR measurement

2. I used my constant current tester at 5/10A, and it got the same voltage curve, and end capacity as my real 30Q, which was 2820mAh down to 2.8V, and 2800mAh down to 2.8V respectively.

It had no problem keeping up at equal levels to the 30Qs, so along with the physical analysis not checking out, I deduced it was a real 30Q :)
 
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