reverse-engineered BMS, Teensy3.2 based, working with Tesla module oem slaveboard

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CarelHassink

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Oct 21, 2017
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154
A while ago I picked up a conversation between Tom dBree and Daniel Boekel in another forum "https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/"
Tom and Daniel were involved in developing this reverse engineered board based on the work of Colin Kidder
It's based on a Teensy 3.2 +Tom's refined code/board, and well what can I say,
it's just working.
Since Daniel is living in the next town, I had a visit and bought some boards to try out.

It has a build in canbus connection to Victron kit, and just works out of the box.
Good to know development just doesn't stop, meanwhile Mitsubsihi VW BMW drive batteries can be adressed too,
next will be can integration to Brusa and other chargers
See example of my test-rigg with a 2S2P ~48V ~20Kwh Tesla module set-up, Victron Color Control GX, Victron Quattro 48V5000
Features of the SimpleBMS:
-Overvoltage monitoring
-Temperature monitoring
-Undervoltage monitoring
-Balancing during charge
-Current measurement
-AH counter
Outputs
-Contactors/relays or other 12V signals
-pre-charge
-PWM 'gas/fuel' gauge control
-Serial interface for Victron VE direct
updated continously on Github
price:
300 ex vat ex shipping
bare board SimpleBMS + Teensy3.2 + code

All manuals + code on Github


We are based in Continental Europe, Netherlands
BRCarel Hassink

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ardenking5

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Sep 30, 2017
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isn't that sods law if it works with Mitsubsihi could have bought this rather than batrium
 

CarelHassink

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Oct 21, 2017
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154
Hello Arden,

Did you check forum's thread?? it's good reading
It is in no way comparable with Batrium, no graphical interface
all command line, through Arduino IDEserial interface,
only works on oem second-life batteries, limited brands.
Not included extra's: cabling/serial loop to link-up oem slave boards, LEM shunt/cable, contactors
This is a true diy kit + you need to have a more than basic skillset of building your storage battery.

but yes, me happy with it.

pricing 300 + VAT ~363 ex postage
so not really cheaper either,
but a solution to some hard to hook up oem batteries like the Tesla modules VW modules BMW modules,
and yes it works with GS YUASA cells too, but with some effort (check the Simpbms manual)

At the moment working on a port of theSimp bmsto HV voltage inverters like the SMA Sunny Boy storage 2,5-6 range
http://files.sma.de/dl/31186/SBS37-60-DEN1751-V21web.pdf
But as allways slow process, and a long way stillbefore finished for market entry.

best Carel
 

ardenking5

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Sep 30, 2017
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29
Thanks Carel

Going to watch this with interest have a few winter projects to keep me busy at the moment as well
inc water harvesting :)
 

DudeBro

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Mar 17, 2019
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Simple BMS still for sale? How do I order?

Can we see manual to plan the build before ordering? Need to have an idea if its way over my head or not to get this system up and running.
 

CarelHassink

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
Messages
154
Hi there,
right,

I stock and sell these €375 ex vat/postage,
buyer get's a rebate when buying batteries as well
starterkit dinrail holder molex crimps etc available too

SIMPbms works out of the box with Tesla + GS YUASA cmu. (update 17-03-2021 BMW i3 too, max 8 modules)
and will control features like setting of start voltage for balancing, balance hysteresis, can have values set for over/under voltage under/over temp etc.
I prefer to use Victron kit to work with SIMPbms, since these inverters have very wide adjustable voltage span
battery modules + SIMPbms = battery side, >>>connects with utp cable to can-port of Venus GX>>>>to inverter, all done.
plus the rest of settings/cablework/switches/tripshunts etc

To hook up Tesla modules you need to make a daisy chain of connectors, best to recycle from scraps out of the Tesla battery box.
To hook up GS YUASA cell blocks: this is a can-loop bus, starts with 120 Ohm resistor, and must be terminated too ( done on Venus GX)
Keep YUASA CMU connectors from battery module cable loom + about 15cm length of wire, as the JST pinsare a pain to crimp



I cannot attach pdf files, so just contact me by e-mail c.hassink@pro-lox.nl
or look on githubhere

Carel Hassink



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Last edited:

Lykke

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Oct 6, 2019
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Great work, thank you :)

We are in the process of getting a battery upgrade for our BMW i3's, so I will probably soon have one or two 60Ah/18.8kWh OEM BMW battery packs on my hand. I would like to use one or two of these old packs as battery storage for our PV system, ideally, I would like to keep the hole pack/casing intact and use a high voltage Inverter/Charger like Sunny Boy storage. Obviously I'll need a suitable BMS to make it work.

This seem to be more or less the project you are working on, how is your progress?
 

CarelHassink

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Joined
Oct 21, 2017
Messages
154
Lykke,
small team working on it, Even in Norway, Tom in UK, Daniel and me in Holland,
actually 2 separate projects
1) getting the SIMP to talk to SMA SBS series
2) getting the SIMP to talk to the BMW cmu's

2) We have slow progress, thanks to Kai we now have the full can database of the BMW i3, but that was just 2 weeks ago
1) we bought a BYD 6.4 HV battery and a SMA SBS6 to hook up a can sniffer, Even from Norway would log into my home network to crack code etc.
that didn't work to well, so now we have moved all kit on pallet to Norway, and have it at Even's place.
Hopefully that will speed up process.

All code will be on Github when ready,
latest scores are GS YUASA LEV50N cmu (iMIEV etc), VOLT/Ampera cmu:
https://github.com/tomdebree

best Carel
 

Lykke

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Oct 6, 2019
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Thanks for the update Carel, will be great when your team crack this nut also. I would have liked to contribute, but I'm afraid this is way out of my league. I will follow the project here and on github, Maybe I can do something when it gets more applied.
 

CarelHassink

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Oct 21, 2017
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154
Lykke,
keep following me,
we need testers later

best Carel
 

Lykke

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Oct 6, 2019
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Carel, Denmark operate a positive list for grid connected inverters and unfortunately currently there are no SMA battery inverters on the list, but the Solar-X inverters are on the list. Does SIMP support SolarX hybrid inverters?
 

CarelHassink

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Oct 21, 2017
Messages
154
Lykke,

short answer is:
no, Solax is not supported

as far as I know of,
we've been stepping on new ground here,
trying to develop a set-up where we could use second-life ev-batteries in a HV system with commercial HV inverters

We went for SMA at the time, since such a well-known brand in the market place.
it's simple actually, our first effort, and investment, needs to be completed, so we'll stick to SMA until finished or fail.
Any support from the community is appreciated

best Carel
 

Darkwing

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Feb 10, 2021
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Hi
Another dane here, so i too struggle with the whitelist of devices.
I too am looking at the i3 battery, mainly because it is cheap and has a fair size for household use.
I currently have a Growatt sph 3600 + 6kwh Growatt gbli6531, but it just runs out way to fast.
Growatt has hybrid inverters running up to 10.000wh (SPH10000). Be aware the 3600 is version 1 and most of the larger are with new tech (higher voltage support). Growatt relies on a smart meter that communicates via rs485 (two wire, Modbus? maybe just impulses). Smart meter is Eastron SDM630-Modbus V3
I would love to use the i3 in its case, the same as Lykke.
The device that you Carel is making, will sit between the battery and the charger and control charging and discharging from the battery pack ?
That means we need something to put power into the pack and something to retrieve it. Growatt seems to support rs485. I'm not sure what the sunny island supports (CAN, RS485, alternatives).
I'm a developer (primarily c#) and has worked quite a bit with pi's and arduinos. Would be interested in helping out if it makes sense. I'm not hardcore on the battery side, but have worked quite a bit communicating with plcs and softplcs.

I like the thought of having the smartmeter sensing the consumption and dictating battery charge/discharge. It would be perfect if we could have smartmeter -> Growatt SPH6000(or higher) -> i3 batterypack. So the Growatt handles the conversion of power, your bms controls that battery state and it is nearly plug and play. And would Lykke be able to have two packs in parallel with the same hardware ?
Im not nervous of buying a used 60a i3 battery and giving this a shot, but i need my plan verified somehow.
This emulates my current setup pretty well, so i think it should work, main question is the voltage ranges, charge control parameters and BMS choice.
 

CarelHassink

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Oct 21, 2017
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Hello Darkwing,

1) Tom de Bree is the developer of SIMPbms, find more info on Github

2) short answer: HV Growatt is not on the "white list". Simply not supported.
Feel free to have a look at the code, available on Github, and brew your own.

3) Victron is preferred, their LV inverter range has a wide battery voltage span,
best matching with a 12S battery.
Dual SIMPbms on the 2 VE-can ports works only on Cebro GX device

4) SMA SI LV series works too, but till 43V lowest discharge, badly matching 12S

BMWi3 battery voltage span 49.8-36Vdc/module 8Px12S

Keep it Simple, follow Mads build, use Victron, proven to work

med venlig hilsen, Carel
 

Darkwing

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Will have a look at the code on github and if i think i can add anything, let Tom know that i am tinkering around.

Two questions regarding the i3 battery pack:
1) What voltage range should one aim for (ish) to support the entire battery. I understand that the individual pack is around the 48 mark, but if they are in series in the battery that would come to about 8x48 approx 384.
2) The current BMS in the BMW battery, can we work with that by sending it CAN messages, or should it be replaced and the 8 individual packs be taken out of the entire battery shell, and paired with another BMS like SIMPbms ?

Was about to write to you that Victron wasnt allowed in DK, but found the updated list and the MultiPlus-II 48/5000/70-50 230V is there :). The Quatro is not there, so i will need to dig into the differences on this and the quatro.
(there is a list for solar inverters, and then this for hybrid/storage)

But that then means taking the i3 battery apart and having the individual packs cabled in parallel to keep us at the 48 volt mark correct ?
 

CarelHassink

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Oct 21, 2017
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Please read the manual of SIMPbms manual first,
CSC slave modules of BMW i3 are supported.

Max number of modules supported = 8 unique module ID's
If you find a way to re-flash the CSC ID number to higher than 9, and onwards, I buy you a beer..!!

High Voltage, please be careful, anything north of 60Vdc, will potentially kill a human being...
interesting if you could match a full pack to a HV inverter, whatever the brand.

best Carel
 

Darkwing

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Manual read, and i have talked to Vitron about danish options:

Quatro will NOT be on the positive list
Multiplus-II is on the list and they are working on a 8kva and 10kva edition. A loose estimate of release is Q1 2022. So quite some time.

I will most likely venture into the i3 battery and a single multiplus-II 5kva.

From Carels kind information, i should expect to dissasemble i3 battery and put battery packs into parallel rather than serial. So for now i will most likely abandon my thought of using a Growatt hybrid inverter. The new version of Growatt is high voltage 100v to 550v i think.
It is priced better than the victron and could use the smartmeter directly.
I will have to wait about 2 months to have the funds to do this, expecting taxes back :) I will run through the manual a few times and see what i can do about having a smartmeter in front of the new setup. Thinking about making a man in the middle kind of solution, to split the values ie 30% to old solution and 70% to new.
Exciting journey awaits.
 

CarelHassink

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Oct 21, 2017
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Quattro was designed quite some time ago
and actually for the maritime world, with these Quattro's you need an anti-islanding device Ziehl relay
but pricey....

MPII range is the future, anti-islanding proof,
Take a good look at the available info's from Victron on the subject of ESS

best Carel
 

Darkwing

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Thanks for hinting to ESS, it shows that if i invest in a GX Device i can bridge from current smart meter to Victron inverter/charger.
So shopping list would be something along the lines of:
1xGX Device
1xMultiplus II 5kva
1xcomplete i3 60a battery (Recabled to parallel)
?xSIMPbms Is it one pr internal pack or is it one for the entire battery tray ? (8xpacks)
Quite a few sturdy cables, connectors, fuses, safetyswitches and a place to safely store the actual battery setup.
I'm not super focused on island'ing. Danish power is super stable(i see an outage maybe once every 1-2 yers). I would just have a series of powersockets to be used in case of a major outage. That should allow me plug in relevant items into backup powerplugs if power goes out for a longer period.

If i buy individual 3-4x tesla packs. they are not much more expensive than the bmw batterytray. Is there a recommendation of which to use ?
I just think that the BMW is more accessible in Europe. But prices being fairly similar.... maybe just go with same as everyone else ?
a i3 60a battery trade runs about 3600 euro with about 18-22kwh in it. The tesla 5.2 kwh packs runs about 1200 each. So maybe i should just be brave and buy 4xtesla packs instead. I think about the 20kwh is a much as i can make value out of. From that point on it just gets to expensive.
 

CarelHassink

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Oct 21, 2017
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anti islanding is no joke, If there is a grid failure,
and the men from the power-company trying to repair the cutdown powerline,
and you run power back into the grid, frying these men...wohaa, not funny,
That's why the Quattro's were not on the list, people just didn't wanted to spend the money for a Ziehl relay.
hence it was blocked in DK

whatever the power source Tesla, or any new, or second-life ev batteries,
a nice example is "here" , courtesy of Jens.
uncensored, all the pitfalls are there.

bottom line: do a lot of research before you start the project


Carel
 
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