the right shunt trip?

For me, its not about drawing power from battery (I agree with comments on this) butits about isolating the battery 100% from the system while I work on the system. This isa personal choice. When I put the shunt-trip to OFF, I like to *know* that 'all electrical flow' from the batteryisdisconnected so I can work on the system under that assumption - and Batrium is not needed at that point. If the system goes off via a critical even - again I don't need Batrium to be liveas I have the recorded metrics leading up to the shut-off that I can consult.

Having said the above, I was recently reminded that there is a 2nd power source besides the battery- e.g. PV power. I was upgrading the wiring and disconnected the battery as the 1st step and was momentarily shocked to see Batrium (and other draws)continuing to run... till I (duh!!) remembered that PV power was active. That's why there are breakers on PV input as well that must be turned off to work on the central control box.
 
But the shunt trip should trip PV Power to The battery.
But yes. Breakers for PV should have their own box. I also have separator breakers for each inverter and or Charger.

Makes it very easy to fr maintenance on the part needed.

Also note that you have a separata breaker to batrium so you first trip Main breaker and the. The One for batrium. Thats also how batrium have it in their schematics. (After i told Them :) )
 
Glad I found this thread. I connected my Batrium behind the shunt trip and was happy to have everything connect and trip worked perfect. HOWEVER, as Batrium is booting, it's in default critical state while starting. This automatically triggers the relay to the shunt trip! So, I'm unable to connect the Batrium behind the shunt trip, as you've suggested, I should connect Batrium in front of the shunt trip to avoid this problem. I checked the power usage of the Batrium and appears to be only pulling 2 watts maximum, so even if my bank is really low(causing shunt to trip), it should keep the Batrium up for many days.
 
Tentious said:
... I should connect Batrium in front of the shunt trip to avoid this problem.
Assuming "in front" means you power the batrium BMS from the battery side of the main breaker, then yes.
It's a good idea to have separate switch & fuse for the BMS + an inrush current limiter device there too.
So it's:
battery -ve terminal via 3A fuse to batrium 0V power terminal, and
battery +ve via DC breaker/switch, to another 3A fuse to batrium +ve power input terminal.
above battery terminals also connect to main breaker.
 
I followed a @LithiumSolar youtube andhooked up a 48v->24v step-down (on down side of shut-trip - e.g. no power if shunt trips) that powers Batrium and shunt-trip Batrium relay1 circuit. I also have the Menu -> Critrical Control Logic -> Delay Restart setON w/30secs AND Menu -> Expansion Relay 1 at "Critical Fault".
But I confess I may have had theUSB port connected to local computer which also provides power if 24v is not there.

My questions - doesn't the "Delay Restart" take care of the problem of the shunt-trip being tripped 'to soon' during start up? Are you using an an expansion board relay w/Critical Fault setting on it? or some other method.
 
OffGridInTheCity said:
I followed a @LithiumSolar youtube andhooked up a 48v->24v step-down (on down side of shut-trip - e.g. no power if shunt trips) that powers Batrium and shunt-trip Batrium relay1 circuit. I also have the Menu -> Critrical Control Logic -> Delay Restart setON w/30secs AND Menu -> Expansion Relay 1 at "Critical Fault".
But I confess I may have had theUSB port connected to local computer which also provides power if 24v is not there.

My questions - doesn't the "Delay Restart" take care of the problem of the shunt-trip being tripped 'to soon' during start up? Are you using an an expansion board relay w/Critical Fault setting on it? or some other method.

Both options are set, same as you. The relay is activated/closed immediately when the Watchmon receives power andonly energized for 1-2 seconds before relay is back to off/open position. See attached screenshots.
Critical Control Logic(Note that I'm using LiFePo Cells):

image_noucmw.jpg

Expansion Board Settings:

image_ysrzwq.jpg
 
Tentious said:
OffGridInTheCity said:
I followed a @LithiumSolar youtube andhooked up a 48v->24v step-down (on down side of shut-trip - e.g. no power if shunt trips) that powers Batrium and shunt-trip Batrium relay1 circuit. I also have the Menu -> Critrical Control Logic -> Delay Restart setON w/30secs AND Menu -> Expansion Relay 1 at "Critical Fault".
But I confess I may have had theUSB port connected to local computer which also provides power if 24v is not there.

My questions - doesn't the "Delay Restart" take care of the problem of the shunt-trip being tripped 'to soon' during start up? Are you using an an expansion board relay w/Critical Fault setting on it? or some other method.

Both options are set, same as you. The relay is activated/closed immediately when the Watchmon receives power andonly energized for 1-2 seconds before relay is back to off/open position. See attached screenshots.
Critical Control Logic(Note that I'm using LiFePo Cells):

image_noucmw.jpg

Expansion Board Settings:

image_ysrzwq.jpg
OK, next question might be - what exactly was the 'critical fault' that closed the Batrium relay for the 1-2seconds - e.g. maybe lo/hi battery voltage setting? or something obscure? I'm not that clear on the full range of what can cause a critical fault... obviously lo/hi cell voltage (what I used for my test) but maybe there are non-obvious settings?.

Just to add to the record in case something jumps out, here's my settings.... FYI -I just noticed that Control Logic -> Discharging has "Supply Lo Cutout" in yellow ... (I forgot to change it when going with 48v->24v stepdown) and obviously its not causing my shunt-trip to go off.

Hardware -> Expansion Page

image_lkejjl.jpg


Control Logic -> Critical

image_qteuzc.jpg


Control Logic -> Charging

image_filhag.jpg


Control Logic -> Discharging

image_cvpiep.jpg


Control Logic -> Thermal

image_nzxuhb.jpg
 
The smoke in the machine room in for detecting fire and recalling the elevator. When the machine room smoke activates a red hat light on the elevator car lights up indicating a fire in the machine room to the fire department. The heat in the machine room is for detecting water flow if a sprinkler head is located in the room. When the heat trips, the elevator shunts killing power, dont want to be standing in water with the power on!!!
 
Hello Gentlemen,

finally I got my ABB S5 this week from USA.
Unfortunately it's a 125V DC version for the shunt trip.
So to connect it to the Batrium I will need an additional Powersupply for 125V DC and a relais.

But there is another Question that now popped up in my mind:
Do I need to connect positive and negative from the Batteriy to the S5,
or would it be possible to only interupt the positive connection with it?
Background:
So it would be possible to have ma. 3 seperate Battery banks through this switch, all connected to the same negative pole.


Regards

cadric
 
Its ok to Connect One Side only.

Connecting 3 banks on the 3ph is not recommeended. You should Read the manual. All depends on voltage and disconnect current
 
daromer said:
Its ok to Connect One Side only.

Connecting 3 banks on the 3ph is not recommeended. You should Read the manual. All depends on voltage and disconnect current

Hi Daromer,

thanks for reply, but what do you mean with 3PH, doesn't ring a bell.

I planned to intall two parallel Battery banks with each 14S and I would like to connect both positive connectors to the ABB S5,
to switch only the positive side in case of an emergency.
The advantage I see is, I can do Maintanance on one Bank while the other Bank is still connected.

Regards

cadric
 
3 phasr/pole versions. They have diagrams on how you are allowed to hook it Up. This to make sure it protects your system properly.
I have 1 breaker for each bank. Then on each bank i have 1 switch per string so i can do maintenance on a string in a bank.
 
Hi daromer,

OK, I now understand.
Unfortunately I was not able to find a Manual for the SB5, do you know where I can find one?

Regards
cadric
 
Mike linked it earlier hmm. If i find it il relink. Can have been in FB?
 
If are using an external BMS to control the shunt, then would we not achieve the same thing using aVictron BatteryProtect 48V-100A
This has a remote port which you can connect to the BMS for a remote disconnect ? You would obviously need a mains breaker for isolation all the batteries,
the added advantage is you can then remotely re energize your batteries if you have identified that its a false positiveor the back is now balanced and safe to re-enable ?


UPDATE: RTFM I have just looked at the manual and these units only allow current to flow in 1 direction so connecting to an inverter which charges will damage the unit
 
If you are referring to the Victron Battery Protect... you are correct, it is a direction device.

Its application/use case is to manage the load, but it also doesn't like surges and is not compatible with all inverters. Its a device that plays very well in the Victron ecosystem where that device is allowed to control others.

Will Prowse has a video of its use, but was later corrected by Victron. This is documented on his forum. I dont remember all the details but you might want to look into it. Its based on this outdated video which uses the product incorrectly.


Here you go... this was the thread I wanted to share about the Battery Protect
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/reverse-current-on-batteryprotect-48v-100a.5168/#post-52253

And post #14
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/valence-xp-super-thread.5683/#post-58654
 
rolfbartels said:
looks right thanks, quite pricey though

Unfortunately that is just the going price of NEW branded circuit protection.

While a lot of this gear isn't cheap, the used market is good place to look. You may have to make some compromises, but there are big savings going used commercial/industrial electrical hardware.

I highly recommend you look at eBay along with other liquidators of used equipment.

I bought mine off ebay but have this bookmarked after I saw another member with this info in his signature.

https://www.rivercityindustrial.com/
 
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