w0ss semi DIY powerwall V2

evangarber

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Apr 21, 2020
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Hello: im joining this discussion as I am going to assemble the breakout board also. This is my first attempt at a project like this so kindly bear with me. I was going to just connect the batrium bmsleads to the 16 appropriate leadson the battery cable but the board is a much neaterway of doing this.

Questions:

1. To order the board made.. do I just go into edit on the board design page and click on the jlcpcb link on the side of the page. Does this automatically upload the board design? If not how do you do the order.

2.As noted,DB128H-5.08-12P-GN-S has Beendiscontinued. What did you search on in amazon as a replacement? I have found the following which includes a twelve pole .. would this work?

3.Does the sma assembly include wiring in the 16 fuses?

4.It requires uploading the gerber file. How is that done? Seems to expect a photo.

[size=small]SamIdea 10Pieces 2-12 Pole 2.54mm/0.1" Plug Type Pitch PCB Mount.[/size]
 

w0ss

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Oct 15, 2019
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1. There is an order button on the easyeda site I just clicked that and it imported the board. It is the button at the top next to "BOM" that has a G and an arrow.
2. Looks like there are a few standards. You want the 5mm spacing units. I used "uxcell 20 Pcs 3 Terminals 5.0mm Pitch PCB Mount Screw Terminal Block AC 250V 8A"
3. The fuses are surface mount and the assembly does include that. They are an expensive part but I wanted the protection on my boards.
4. see question 1 I never had to do that.

Like I mentioned before the hole spacing is a bit off. I think if you move the bottom 2 mounting holes down 1mm it would be better. But I never tested since it still fits well enough to mount.
 

evangarber

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Apr 21, 2020
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Ok.. im getting there. But have one issue when i check free smt assembly it requests two files.. the bom an excell file..(parts list) which i have then a cpl file which i have no idea where to find. Both apoear to be excel files. Do you know what this is?


Thanks Much for the info.
 

w0ss

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Oct 15, 2019
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Are you looking for the pick and place file? That you can export under the PCB then click the folder icon on the top left. If I recall it didn't like the formatting of it and I had to go in and duplicate the part's. If you can't figure it out I will redo it and put the files here for anyone that wants them.
Thanks,
Will

EDIT: I just went through and it took the pick and place and bom file this time so they must have fixed whatever bug I hit before.
 

Etn06448

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Apr 21, 2020
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I'm lost in this ordering process. Would it be too much to ask if someone can do a group order? I think that many who bought these modules would be interested in this board. What do you think w0ss? Be happy to buy you coffee. :)
 

evangarber

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w0ss said:
Are you looking for the pick and place file? That you can export under the PCB then click the folder icon on the top left. If I recall it didn't like the formatting of it and I had to go in and duplicate the part's. If you can't figure it out I will redo it and put the files here for anyone that wants them.
Thanks,
Will

EDIT: I just went through and it took the pick and place and bom file this time so they must have fixed whatever bug I hit before.
Yep:.i was looking for the pick and place file. It seems the requirements on the order change with each attempt?.

i finally got through and my order went through. This is the way to wire this up if you are attempting long term use in a residential system. Thanks much for the help. The order will be installing the resettable fuses.. the three receptacles will be my installation. I was not sure whether theywere supposedto supply the main LGcablereceptacle but it did not show up as selected. I bought a couple of those from allied as well as the other 2.
It appears from your map of the lg wires, thereare two negatives,as there are two independent banks of 7 + 1leads.How did you deal with thatin the layout of your board?


I suggest you order a few pf these and just sell them to the new lg owners.if you have the inclination.. there are up to60 new ones out there.. depending on whether people bought more than one. In 6 months batteryhookup will have more. I am inclined to speak to friends of mine who work the server farms in santa clara, to see if they know of sources and ifthere are any coming available.
 

w0ss

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Oct 15, 2019
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"It appears from your map of the lg wires, there are two negatives, as there are two independent banks of 7 + 1 leads. How did you deal with that in the layout of your board?"

I broke out all pins. I updated my board to put some writing on it to make it more clear but the pins on the bottom connector go "-1 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 -8 +8 +9 +10" If you are running it like me at 14s I just skipped the -8 connection as it is the same as the +7. I left them in in case someone was just using a 7s monitor.

I don't really have any interest in selling these. If someone else wants to feel free :)
 

evangarber

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Apr 21, 2020
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My board is coming from china and my watchmon 5 bms is coming from australia in a few days and i want to make sure I wire the board correctly.


Which of the 24 pins on the U50 and U51 connector pins are the ones that need to be hooked up to the bms?

In the post immediately above where you describe the bottom connector:

bottom connector go "-1 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 -8 +8 +9 +10. do you mean this as applying to the u50?

Is that the u50? If so and you skip the -8 you are then hooking up 11 of the batrium wires to that. Where do the remaining batrium wires go?

Im sorry if i sound confused, but all I think I need is a map of the u50 and u51 and what gets hooked in where.

Thanks for the assistance

Evan
 

w0ss

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Oct 15, 2019
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Here is a better picture showing the connections with my board.

The botttom connection has only 11 cables and then the top has 4

The connections on the top connectorgo like this

X X X X X X X X +14 +13 +12 +11


image_zrldgh.jpg
 

evangarber

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Apr 21, 2020
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Today, a purchaser of the lg battery posted this. Were you aware. If you are how are you dealing with thisissue?

He wrote the following:

HEADS UP!!!! If you have ordered the 10kwh LG Chem modules... be aware that the ENTIRE external case is bonded to the negative terminal of the battery pack..... resulting in an external bms NOT being able to cut power if a cell becomes over voltage! you MUST either break the internal connection to chassis ground or isolate the module from other grounds in your system... lesson learned the hard way today.... ?feeling embarrassed.

Ido not knowwhther his pack was damaged etc.
 

w0ss

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Oct 15, 2019
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I am going to be using an external shunt trip breaker that will cut negative and positive so for me not an issue.

I think in most cases the external portion of the cell is bonded or just straight up the negative terminal. That is why people put heat shrink on 18650's. So while it sucks, it is the risk we all take when we do this DIY work. Make sure you understand how it all works :) In this case you could heatshrink the case or put some wood/rubber mat in between them if you are just stacking them on top of each other.
 

w0ss

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Oct 15, 2019
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got my batrium multimon8 in so cleaned up my wiring. Expanded the existing hole and covered my wiring with a cloth loam


image_vcnjnj.jpg




image_rcygdl.jpg
 

evangarber

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w0ss said:
I am going to be using an external shunt trip breaker that will cut negative and positive so for me not an issue.

I think in most cases the external portion of the cell is bonded or just straight up the negative terminal. That is why people put heat shrink on 18650's. So while it sucks, it is the risk we all take when we do this DIY work. Make sure you understand how it all works :) In this case you could heatshrink the case or put some wood/rubber mat in between them if you are just stacking them on top of each other.
Batrium , in the helpfiles , describes a shunt trip breakerinstallation, with photos. i believe off the shunt that comes with then watchman.. they use a Schneider breaker. Is this what you are describing, above?
 

evangarber

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w0ss said:
got my batrium multimon8 in so cleaned up my wiring. Expanded the existing hole and covered my wiring with a cloth loam


image_vcnjnj.jpg




image_rcygdl.jpg
Hello again:

I assembled the breakout board you designed and have your photo of he leads in to theboard. I just receivedmywatchmon5.

There area totalof 15 leads going into the breakout board. You skipped number 8and proceed to use 4 of the connectorson therear connectorfor a total of 15 leads going in. Ifyou wire thisto the Watchmon 5as a 14s,you are instructed to insert a singlejumperat position jc1.


Some questions Ihope you can answer before i attempt to wire this guy.


1.Is this actually being wiredas a15s - meaningall of the15 of the leads you have on thebreakout board connect to the15 positionson the high and low boards (thereby requiring nojumper)?

2. When I measured the voltage of each of the leads after connecting theboard to the LG yoke, the first lead on teh left of the lower jumper was high (+52.5V)and it progressed downward with voltage at about 3.7v per jumper - except for 4 and 5 whichread the same and 8and 9 which read the same... this continued onto the 4 leads onthe back connector. IS there something I am supposed to do different with the positions 4 and which read the same voltage? I am skipping 8 as you have done.


Thanks in advance for clarification.



Evan
 

w0ss

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Oct 15, 2019
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This is setup as a 14s(15 cables), looks like it's good except 4 and 5. There should be different voltage between them. Check your solder joints I guess but if it was bridged I think that would be pretty apparent.

It's a pretty basic board so I doubt is was made wrong at the factory but it's always possible. Are you seeing the same on all the boards?

On your shunt question I used ABB S3N 225A breaker off ebay they can be had pretty cheap. Just make sure you get one with the correct control voltage you are running.
 

HydroGeo

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May 7, 2020
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Hello. A few weeks ago, I picked up 3 of the LG Chem modules from that batch of 60 that BH was selling. I'm pretty new to all this so I'm glad to have found other knowledgeable folks who are using these batteries and sharing their designs/experiences. Thanks! It has been very helpful. I will likely be asking a lot of (potentially dumb) questions... so I apologize in advance.

Here is what I am planning:

I am looking to set up residential application as a 48v system using an MPP Solar LV5048 to power a critical load panel that was originally set up as a 10 circuit generator transfer switch.

As I mentioned, the battery bank will be 3 of these 189 ah LG chem modules.

For now, the goal will be to use the LV5048 and batteries as a UPS/peak shaving system. Where I live the off-peak power rate is 1/5 of the on-peak rate, so if I can power my critical loads from battery during on-peak and charge during off-peak, it will be a good start.

Eventually, I will be adding PV. Right now, I only have a few panels totaling 1kW. So Im looking to obtain some more panels before setting up that side of the system.

Anyway, now Im trying to figure out how to wire and manage these batteries. The info w0ss shared on here gave me a lot to think about. I like the breakout board and how clean it makes connecting to a BMS. I will likely be joining you folks in obtaining a few for my setup.

As for a BMS, I want to be able to see all the cell voltages in each module, so I ruled out the Daly units. I was looking into those cheaper bluetooth BMS units but although the price seems favorable, I worry about the quality and dont want to risk my investment in these batteries (and my safety). So I shifted to looking at the Chargery BMS, but I wasnt totally sold on those either. Kept seeing mixed reviews.

I wasnt considering the Batrium system until I came upon this thread. After looking into it more, I like what I see. Its pricier, but seems like you get what you pay for.. a very functional, quality system.

Based on what I learned so far, I think Id need a Watchmon5 and probably 2 additional Multimon units to monitor all 42 cells of the 3 modules. Id consider getting the Shuntmon as well to complete the setup. The cost hurts a little to think about but the capability of that setup is enticing. The one thing Im not clear on is if I would need the Watchmon with the expansion board. Seems like the expansion board is needed if you want to have the ability to remote trip the breaker or control a fan, both of which I would like to do. Is that the case?

One last, dumb question Im looking for some confirmation about what the max current draw could be from my battery bank in order to assist with properly sizing my DC components breakers, wires, fuses. The LV5048 is a 5kW inverter at peak for AC output. I dont expect to be putting anywhere near that demand on the inverter from my normal loads. Based on what Ive seen, the LV5048 taps out pretty quick with very heavy loads/surges. According to the manual, typical amperage is 220A with a recommended minimum battery capacity of 200AH. Recommended wire size from the inverter to the battery is 1/0 awg. Id likely have a wire distance of <5ft for my main DC cables from the inverter to the distribution bar. I was thinking of going with 2/0 wire to be safe and minimize loss. Im not sure what size wire to use from each of the 3 modules to the distribution bar. Wire length would be <3ft. I was thinking 2 AWG and could always double it to be safe. any thoughts on breaker/fuse rating would be helpful as well.

Any input on this is appreciated, thanks!
 

w0ss

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Oct 15, 2019
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I did 100amp fuses on each pack going to a bussbar. I then have a 250amp fuse going to the pair of inverters.

For watchmon you would need the WM5 to control the MM8 boards. I do recommend the shuntmon as well to get the full picture. Honestly I would just buy it. I went through Daly then Chargery until I got the WM5. I was never happy and would have saved a bunch if I just went direct to Batrium WM5.
 

evangarber

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Apr 21, 2020
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w0ss said:
This is setup as a 14s(15 cables), looks like it's good except 4 and 5. There should be different voltage between them. Check your solder joints I guess but if it was bridged I think that would be pretty apparent.

It's a pretty basic board so I doubt is was made wrong at the factory but it's always possible. Are you seeing the same on all the boards?

On your shunt question I used ABB S3N 225A breaker off ebay they can be had pretty cheap. Just make sure you get one with the correct control voltage you are running.
The boards are fine. I did continuity testing on two of them. Just made up another board and it seems OK now. Do not know why I got the joinder of 4 and 5. Lousy soldering technique may be the culprit.

I founda cheap abb S3H 24vdc shunt breaker on ebay - there are many - you just have to make sure you have the model with shunt trip.They seem to have 2variations on trigger voltage - 24 vdc and 125vdc. Somehow I will have to convert the 48vdc on the watchmon 5 to 24. I believeyou can just wire in a resistor to do this. not sure the size - although I could calculate it.

How did you handlethis? where goeth the resistor - on the relay?
 
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