Watchmon 4 onboard output

kevinjaye

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Can anyone help me with the onboard mosfet output on the watch mon 4?
I connected a fan to output Aon the watchmon based on theinfo provided on the batrium site however when I set the output to manually on nothing happens same thing with output B. The software shows the on indicator but nothing at the terminals.



image_ygliwo.jpg
 

Sean

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It's hard to see how you've got yours wired, but the A and B outputs are switched zero volts (0v/gnd/negative)

The schematic on the Batrium site is correct and does work, assuming both of your outputs do actually function.

Have you seen Brunos video on fan control ? (Its a Batrium video) although it relates primarily related to the expansion the principal is the same.

 

kevinjaye

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Sean said:
It's hard to see how you've got yours wired, but the A and B outputs are switched zero volts (0v/gnd/negative)

The schematic on the Batrium site is correct and does work, assuming both of your outputs do actually function.

Have you seen Brunos video on fan control ? (Its a Batrium video) although it relates primarily related to the expansion the principal is the same.


It is connected exactly as shown on the website but still nothing I even did a software update still nothing
 

Sean

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Then it's time to enter the black hole of Batriums support system.

Perhaps one last thing to try, assuming you have some mons - connect a few up, and use the cooling enabled logic to switch A or B - you can set a temperature a few degrees above ambient and use body heat to take a mon over that temp, or a heat gun/hair dryer - you should see the cooling icon appear at the bottom of the toolkit software, and you can see the state on the logic page - the only reason to try this alternative method of triggering is to eliminate the remote possibility of "manual on" being the cause, rather than the physical FETs.
 

Headrc

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I am currently working on the same problem ...and have been in the black hole of Batrium support ...with a lot of communication there but no solution yet. I too have it wired up as described on the Batrium website. I am going to try something different today and see if it works and will post if it does. Are you using a dc-dc transformer for 12 volt fans? The shunt trip breaker that I have wired up as per the Batrium diagram works fine so I know my outputs are working properly.
 

kevinjaye

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Sean said:
Then it's time to enter the black hole of Batriums support system.

Perhaps one last thing to try, assuming you have some mons - connect a few up, and use the cooling enabled logic to switch A or B - you can set a temperature a few degrees above ambient and use body heat to take a mon over that temp, or a heat gun/hair dryer - you should see the cooling icon appear at the bottom of the toolkit software, and you can see the state on the logic page - the only reason to try this alternative method of triggering is to eliminate the remote possibility of "manual on" being the cause, rather than the physical FETs.

I will try that. I tried it with the high cell voltage trigger and the software showed it being active but nothing at the output. I contacted batrium support but its like a damn merry-go- round


Headrc said:
I am currently working on the same problem ...and have been in the black hole of Batrium support ...with a lot of communication there but no solution yet. I too have it wired up as described on the Batrium website. I am going to try something different today and see if it works and will post if it does. Are you using a dc-dc transformer for 12 volt fans? The shunt trip breaker that I have wired up as per the Batrium diagram works fine so I know my outputs are working properly.

I set it up as a 4s to test it so no converter was required. maybe its a strategy to force youto buy the expansion board
 

Headrc

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To further pursue this topic ....let me see if anyone agrees with my reading of that second diagram that Sean highlighted from the Batrium website for wiring up the fan assembly with a DC-DC converter without an expansion board.

1. Negative on the Watchmon input connects to negative on the battery.
2. Positive on the Watchmon has a 2 amp fuse in line and is connected to the positive side of the battery.
3. Positive on the input side of the dc-dc converter goes through a 4 amp fuse and connects to the positive side of the battery. (Mine is a 48 volt to 12 voltDc-DC converter).
4. Negative on the input side of the dc-dc converter connects to one of the switched outputs on the Watchmon 4 (Output B in the diagram).
5. The positive and negative outputs of the DC-DC converter 12 volt side connects to the fan assembly.
Thereby once a logic parameter such as thermal/cooling reaches its threshold the switch output turns on the 48 DC-DC converter by supplying its negative side.

Batrium has not answered these specific questions so I am reaching out here. I believe I have it right but would like someone else to confirm it. It is not working when wired up this way but Batrium again does not offer any response (yet) on confirming this method of wiring.

Thanks

Richard
 

Sean

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That's correct, other than clarification of the word "input" refers to the WM4 supply rails rather than the WM4s two terminals for connection inputs.

The schematic is very simple, Batrium should credit its customers with having the ability to follow simple schematics.

Additionally, I can confirm, that the above schematic is also correct - all of the WM4s that I've purchased have had functioning A & B outputs that operate as expected, so I suppose you should be providing clear evidence to Batriums "support" that yours are correctly wired, but non functional - there should then be no issues with having the unit replaced.
 

Headrc

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Thanks Sean. Yes that is how my wiring is. I can read simple schematics and Batrium keeps pushing back with maybe your wiring is incorrect or you did not fuse properly etc.Have you actually wired up a fan assembly with this wiring diagram and had it work? It certainly makes sense but again mine is not working. I have checked my wiring left and right and that is exactly how it has been wired form the get go with fuses in place as described.Thanks, Richard
 

Sean

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Not fusing as per the schematic, which I assume is their definition of incorrectly, would only have been a problem if you'd made a mistake with the wiring, or connected a hefty fan, and no fuse - or some other issue resulting in a component failure.

I have 3 different systems running using WM4s, I cant remember if that schematic was ever replicated exactly (using a fan) during our initial evaluation - but the switching logic certainly functioned correctly.

Of the 3 slightly differing systems now in operation, 1 WM4 doesn't use either A or B as they failed shorted during testing, probably due to having what seems to be no fly back protection - this was during the shunt locking phase which resulted in shunt trips being triggered whenever a cell went into bypass - all three now have expansion boards, the remaining two whose A and B outputs do still function switch relays or contactors, which in turn are connected to either heating or cooling system - you'll get the gist from this image showing a part finished BMS enclosure.

All of the I/Os are broken out to a separate enclosure which contains the relays and contactors - all of which have external coil protection.


image_xrwwyb.jpg



I'm assuming you've checked the fan actually works, and that it's not polarised before connecting it ...... sometimes simple things cause big problems.
 

hbpowerwall

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Either fets have fused due to inrush, wires are wrong, the configuration is wrong - post HIGH res photos of every component and a video of every screen on the toolkit and i'm happy to take a look -
 

Headrc

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Alrighty ...well according to a response I just got from Jaron, the problem is the DC-DC converter that I am using is too powerful for the Watchmon 4's outputs using the wiring approach on Batrium's website. He sent that response after I had sent more pictures today as well as checked the output on the Watchmon 4 that I was using for the fans with my multimeter today. Yes the fet is damaged. When checking with my multimeter it is constantly supplying the switched ground. Which is why the fans are always on no matter what the Watchmon toolkit control logic instructs.

I did not realize the criteria on the dc-dc converter, especially since the outputs on the Watchmon 4 were just switching ground on/off for the Dc-Dc converter. In fact the Dc-Dc converter that I chosehas the same specs (and probably made in the same Chinese plant)that is in the Batrium video on installing fans without the expansion board.The dc-dc converter itself never supplied voltage to the Watchmon supply rails. That was either provided by the USB connection or the battery itself (with that 2 amp fuse in line when that was the case). Of note is there is no specification regarding choice of DC-DC converter in Batrium's instructions on wiring up fans to the outputs. So I picked an inexpensive Dc-Dc converter with plenty of headroomfor what I am using right now (4 fans that draw .2A each) and possible future expansionif needed. And again it is the same one that is in Batrium's video for this application. However, I chose the wiring approach that is on Batrium's web site instead of the one in the video because I wanted hook up a 48V shunt trip breaker to the other output. This is different then the approach that is in the video.So lesson learned regarding this and hopefully this will be helpful to others in the future. I am waiting for Jaron's response on how we will proceed on this,

BTW ...for future reference, since I am not going to be posting video's to Youtube with these efforts at this time ...is there a way to post a video only on this forum? Or does it have to embedded on a site like Youtube?

Thanks as always,

Richard
 

daromer

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And ur sure you havent burnt the mosfet? I see mention of DC/DC? Their inrush currents can easily blow it up

Edit: I responded when there were new responds so most likely ignore this response for now...
 

Sean

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A timely reply from Jaron and a plausible explanation.

Headrc - Batrium mistakenly sent a 12v expansion board to us many moon ago, if you want it you can have it - PM me if it'll be of any use.


kevinjaye said:
Can anyone help me with the onboard mosfet output on the watch mon 4?
I connected a fan to output Aon the watchmon based on theinfo provided on the batrium site however when I set the output to manually on nothing happens same thing with output B. The software shows the on indicator but nothing at the terminals.



image_ygliwo.jpg

Just Kevin's issue to solve now - which wont be in rush related.
 

Headrc

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Sean ...that is a generous offer from you. Checking this morning for a response from Jaron did not turn up anything, and due to the different time zones it will be at least another 8 hours before I hear anything.I would like to see what Batrium is going to do regarding this before I impose on you. I do not feel negligent regarding this issue considering all the information/instructionavailable for this application was followed. I put a lot of effort in studyingthatinformation and then a lot of time going back and forth with Batrium regarding the problem.

This once again emphasizes the need for an organized detailed manual from Batrium. One which would specify things like ...do not use a Dc-Dc converter of the like that I used for this application. It would be good insurance against Batrium's limited resources and help customers avoid time consuming mistakes.

Thanks,

Richard
 

Sean

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Headrc said:
This once again emphasizes the need for an organized detailed manual from Batrium. One which would specify things like ...do not use a Dc-Dc converter of the like that I used for this application. It would be good insurance against Batrium's limited resources and help customers avoid time consuming mistakes.

Thanks,

Richard

In Batriums defence they do mention the A & B outputs switching capabilities, which from memory is 4A and 8A surge (but no surge duration) ? - but it might be of interest to clarify either via the converters spec, or by experiment what the actual surge is. I've managed to kill both on one of mine, I think I've mentioned how previously - hence my now rather retro use of mechanical relays, switched by the onboard FETs

I'll find the 12v expansion before the end of the week have see how the FETs are configured, it's yours if you need it.
 

daromer

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Headrc you cannot write a manual stating what not to do... That list would be lobg
 

Headrc

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Ok I agree on that ...but maybe then a specification for the proper DC-DC converter ....and again the one I used was exactly the same as the one in the demonstration video.
 

Sean

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I've now watched closely the Batrium how to video illustrating the method of using the supervisors onboard FETs to feed the DC to DC to the fan - I've attached a screenshot, and the Batrium schematic.

I now know why folks are killing their FETs (this is not how mine died)

Anyone else see the difference ?


image_uzuivz.jpg



image_zfrfsj.jpg


Again in Batriums defence, they have quoted the FET switching specs

but ...... etc etc
 
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