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Dr. Dickie

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I scanned the article, but did not see what reasoning FPL used in trying to ban roof top solar? The ONLY thing I could imagine might be a problem would be hurricane considerations, but that would be an insurance thing, not the power company. And in ground solar would also be suseptible to high winds (my biggest fear for my system).
Hopefully this is the end of that.
 

Korishan

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I scanned the article, but did not see what reasoning FPL used in trying to ban roof top solar? The ONLY thing I could imagine might be a problem would be hurricane considerations, but that would be an insurance thing, not the power company. And in ground solar would also be suseptible to high winds (my biggest fear for my system).
Hopefully this is the end of that.
The majority of home owners don't have a yard big enough for ground mounted panels. So if this bill had passed, it would mean that an enormous amount of homes would not be allowed to install Solar. And that would mean that FPL, and other power companies, can still make huge profits.
By install rooftop panels, this continually decreases the revenue income to the power companies. And because they want to keep profits, they would jack up the cost / kWh, which would drive more ppl to install panels.

The other thing that the power companies are fighting over with solar panels, is grid-tied units. They don't want units installed because of backfeeding into the grid. Problem with this is that it is very difficult to get approved for equipment if it is not installed by licensed electrician/solar-installer, which drives up the price of installations. So part of FPLs arguments would be to minimize lineman injuries. However, this isn't really the issue here because I'm sure there are far more lineman who are injured from idiots plugging in their generators to the panels without turning off the mains breaker first! But those are probably statistics that FPL didn't mention when the issue was brought up.
 

Dr. Dickie

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Yeah, made sure that my power goes through a alternative electrical panel. That means I can put circuits on solar or grid, cannot be on both. That restricted me to only 10 breakers, so I only have all my 120 V on solar, but the 240 V is still grid. Cuts my grid electrical usage by about 65%. My panels are in the back yard. What is crazy is, I have the most perfect roof for solar. A HUGE roof facing due South. The wife would not let me do solar on it, because of the expense of getting a new roof down the road if there was solar on there.
She started to come around, when again last week, I heard a transformer blow, and the power was off for about 2 hours while FPL fixed it. We did not realize the power was out. My wife said the dryer was broken, she said she tried to turn it on and nothing. That was how I figured out the power was out :LOL:

Plan on moving in a couple of years, so no sense in doing it now.
 
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OffGridInTheCity

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I wonder about solar on the roof. Is it 'really' that hard to unbolt the panels, possibly unbolt the rails... add new roofing around the supports and then put it all back? Seems geminately doable / not the end of the world.

Also - perhaps panels protect shingles to some degree, maybe one can new roof around the panels?

Haven't read anything on this - has anyone faced this?

---------------
I have cement tiles which means (in theory) I'll never need a new roof. But if I do, the solar roof hooks are tied to the rafters under the cement tiles which means the panels can be unscrewed from the Ironridge rails (MC4s disconnected), the rails can be unscrewed (if necessary) and repairs could take place.
 

Korishan

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Is it 'really' that hard to unbolt the panels, possibly unbolt the rails
Not really, but takes time and space. Depending on the roof, there won't be space to put them while doing the roof. So it takes 3 times as long to do the roof as the panels/equipment needs to be stored on the ground
Along with this, you would then need a Solar Certified Roofing company to do this. Otherwise you are taking a great risk that the ones doing the roof are skilled, or competent, enough to do this. Otherwise, you'd need to hire a solar contractor to come remove the panels, then have them come back to put them back.

perhaps panels protect shingles to some degree
yeah, they do. The tar in the shingles won't break down no where near as fast. So a 20yr roof could last 30+yr. Except for the areas where the panels don't cover the shingles. The work around would be to install a metal roof

maybe one can new roof around the panels?
Don't wanna do this, realistically. Each mount point would be an ingress point of failure. Even tho they could be slopped with tar, but this is very messy and doesn't guarantee a good seal. Take a look at roof vents. Those tarred areas need to be visited more than once a 20yr period. More like 10yr, to make sure there are no cracks in the tar.

Haven't read anything on this - has anyone faced this?
I haven't done this, but I do live in Florida where the heat on roofs is very punishing. And then hurricanes with high winds that can force water in places you thought were sealed. So we want as few holes in the roof as possible.
 

Korishan

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J_Mack58

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Here's another article, but this one is about Mississippi
Good article. Often we view Republicans are for big business but Gov. Ron DeSantis used his head and decided on what was right. Here is my theory, if 3/4 of a state have solar then the Power company would make less money, Period. But they would burn less fossil fuel, so their fuel bill will go down. Their generators would not have to run so hard so their maintenance bill should go down. They would have to cut some personnel who have to retrain to become solar installers. The world would shift just like we did from horseshoes to rubber tires.
 

J_Mack58

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Yeah, made sure that my power goes through a alternative electrical panel. That means I can put circuits on solar or grid, cannot be on both. That restricted me to only 10 breakers, so I only have all my 120 V on solar, but the 240 V is still grid. Cuts my grid electrical usage by about 65%. My panels are in the back yard. What is crazy is, I have the most perfect roof for solar. A HUGE roof facing due South. The wife would not let me do solar on it, because of the expense of getting a new roof down the road if there was solar on there.
She started to come around, when again last week, I heard a transformer blow, and the power was off for about 2 hours while FPL fixed it. We did not realize the power was out. My wife said the dryer was broken, she said she tried to turn it on and nothing. That was how I figured out the power was out :LOL:

Plan on moving in a couple of years, so now sense in doing it now.
The majority of home owners don't have a yard big enough for ground mounted panels. So if this bill had passed, it would mean that an enormous amount of homes would not be allowed to install Solar. And that would mean that FPL, and other power companies, can still make huge profits.
By install rooftop panels, this continually decreases the revenue income to the power companies. And because they want to keep profits, they would jack up the cost / kWh, which would drive more ppl to install panels.

The other thing that the power companies are fighting over with solar panels, is grid-tied units. They don't want units installed because of backfeeding into the grid. Problem with this is that it is very difficult to get approved for equipment if it is not installed by licensed electrician/solar-installer, which drives up the price of installations. So part of FPLs arguments would be to minimize lineman injuries. However, this isn't really the issue here because I'm sure there are far more lineman who are injured from idiots plugging in their generators to the panels without turning off the mains breaker first! But those are probably statistics that FPL didn't mention when the issue was brought up.
Man! Utility Companies have all the lame excuses, the backfeeding into the grid issue has been addressed and still continues to be address way back when the Grid-tie inverter was being developed.
 

Dr. Dickie

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Man! Utility Companies have all the lame excuses, the backfeeding into the grid issue has been addressed and still continues to be address way back when the Grid-tie inverter was being developed.
Yeah, more of a problem with generators, as most people do that their selves. I did my solar, but I understand what is going on. The average bubba who hooks up his generator would not think about feeding into the grid.
Still, I wonder how many times this has been a problem in the last 30 years.
 

Korishan

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What I don't understand is why the companies who make the transformers can't just add a small device/switch that senses current on both sides of the transformer. If power is present on the "Output" side but on the "Input" side, then the switch is triggered to disable the transformer.
This would require the PC to come to the home and manually turn the switch back on. And at this time, the homeowner would be required to pay a fine for having illegally hooking up a generator to the home without the mandated transfer switch installed.

The switch would not be turned back on until the fine is paid. I know this may be a harsh statement, but some times you gotta do extreme cases to make a point for safety and regulations (which they are there for a reason, to save ppls lives).
 

harrisonpatm

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What I don't understand is why the companies who make the transformers can't just add a small device/switch that senses current on both sides of the transformer. If power is present on the "Output" side but on the "Input" side, then the switch is triggered to disable the transformer.
This would require the PC to come to the home and manually turn the switch back on. And at this time, the homeowner would be required to pay a fine for having illegally hooking up a generator to the home without the mandated transfer switch installed.

The switch would not be turned back on until the fine is paid. I know this may be a harsh statement, but some times you gotta do extreme cases to make a point for safety and regulations (which they are there for a reason, to save ppls lives).
I might be wrong, but doesn't a grid sized transformer service dozens or even hundreds of houses? With your idea, a big handful of houses would suffer from power outages because of one idiot backfeeding. Which... could be a good idea? Nothing like social pressure from your neighbors to get people to stick to electrical regulations.
 

Korishan

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doesn't a grid sized transformer service dozens or even hundreds of houses?
Depends on where the transformer is located. Most ppl who live outside of the city have a single transformer per home. Rural networks will have a common transformer and is a bit bigger.
The smaller ones on the poles feeding a single home would be very easy to know which home triggered the switch
1652296877250.png

This transformer feeds a single home

The community sized transformers usually don't drop the voltage all the way down to home-mains voltage, ie 240VAC. As the distance between it and the furthest home would be too far and voltage drop to far
1652296991133.png
This one is a smaller step down transformer before the neighborhood.
1652297080969.png
Here's a ground based transformer, but it still only feeds a single home
1652297146466.png
The unit on the right is a neighborhood transformer. It's much larger. Then the one on the left, smaller unit, is for a single home.
So it would still be fairly easy to know which home(s) triggered the switch. Even if a row of homes were on a single transformer, the culprit could still be figured out by the power meter, especially considering most power meters are now Smart Meters.


Please note that these are common configurations for US power grid. I'm not sure how things are configured for other parts of the world
 

OffGridInTheCity

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Taking this to the individual home level... recently in Oregon we were required to get 'smart, cell tower communication meters' that monitor and transmit to the power company. Do these alert the power company to back-feeding (I wonder) as it seems like they could - e.g. if not automatically shut things off (big relay required) then flag the offender for a warning or visit.

I have fooled with grid-tie in my setup in the past but I got so close to 0 power (and no limiter) I was afraid of triggering some back-feed. So I stopped going down that path and just use ATSs. But it did make me wonder.
 

Korishan

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that monitor and transmit to the power company. Do these alert the power company to back-feeding (I wonder) as it seems like they could
They should be able to, yeah. There is a big contactor in there as the power company can send the signal to turn off the power remotely. So they should be able to detect backfeeding as well.

I have fooled with grid-tie in my setup in the past but I got so close to 0 power (and no limiter) I was afraid of triggering some back-feed. So I stopped going down that path and just use ATSs. But it did make me wonder.
As long as you don't generate more power than you actually use, then you will never output to the grid. So if your gear monitors the amount of power coming in from the grid and keeps the draw <10A then you would keep your utility costs low while still producing your own power.
 
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