Wobbleszo Powerwall

Wobbleszo

New member
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
11
Hello Second Life Storage,

I wanted to post my project here. The current state is a WIP and to simplify things I have simply been posting updates to my Google site (https://sites.google.com/view/wobbleszo/home). I don't have any ads or anything to make revenue (mostly just share my progress with family and friends).


To Do List:

  1. Build new 14s, 200p 300p pack from the 3200mAh cells Panasonic NCR 18650BD (usingfuse wire this time)
  2. Mount remaining solar panels for better charging (8x 150W Mighty Max and28x Renogy 100W panels)...they are all on the roof and wired, but need actual mounting
  3. Keep re-wrapping cells and breaking down packs, 1700 more added that need to be rewrapped
  4. Reinstall disconnects
  5. Upgrade Sunkko 709AD+ spot welder pen to one like Mike N or Average Joe did (very nice!)
  6. disassemble ~65 x 36Vhover board packs 20 cells each (10s, 2p)
  7. disassemble 14s, 60p battery
  8. construct second 14s, 200p pack from mixed cells
High level information:
  • 2x MakeSkyBlue 60ACharge controllers
  • 1x Aims 10kW pure sine wave inverter
  • 6,000+ cells (~4000+ Panasonic NCR 18650BD)
  • 8 gauge cable used for panel to charge controller
  • 4/0 used to connect battery to Inverter
  • 1x batrium BMS v4 kit used with 14 Longmons
  • 6 gauge solid wire to be used for the busbars

I'm sure I am forgetting something, but that is why there's an edit button!



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Edited 04.28.2019 for update of details and progress (plus added one photo).
 

Shade

New member
Joined
Jul 29, 2017
Messages
18
Great potential there.

That one photo of the 36v system isn't for the OCD crowd. :)
 

Wobbleszo

New member
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
11
Shade said:
Great potential there.

That one photo of the 36v system isn't for the OCD crowd. :)

Unfortunately, I do not excel in OCD. I try to do my best to be safe, but I am not one for great cable management or lining everything up just so. I'll keep updating as I make progress; thanks for the comments!
 

w0067814

Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
42
Sure, for some there is an aspect of OCD and/or a professionalism (see https://www.reddit.com/r/cableporn/), but the main reason that a lot of effort is made to keep the installation neat and tidy is to ensure that it is maintainable (perhaps bu others) and that mistakes are not made. These are safety issues.

In the UK (and I presume other countries) all electrical work must be carried out by a "competent person". Note that the law doesn't prescribe what a competent person is, that is for a court to decide. One favoured method would be for that person to have gained accreditation from a recognised body and have suitable tickets for the work undertaken. However that in itself doesn't prove competency. If you did some work on your house and nothing burned down, it may be hard for a 3rd party to argue against your competency in court, but if it did burn down, you'd probably find it hard to prove the other way.

Fires can happen even if the installation was done perfectly. A faulty piece on equipment perhaps. If you had a fire and there was an investigation you'd likely find yourself uninsured. Someone would look at that installation and immediately come to the conclusion that you are not competent and I think you would find it impossible to argue otherwise. Low voltage DC is not regulated in the same way as Main AC supplies so one can argue that you are competent even without relevant qualifications, but you would need evidence. If you have a well laid out design, documented to show schematic diagrams, along with calculations for fusing, breakers, cable sizes etc, then you would have all that is required to argue on court.
 

Shade

New member
Joined
Jul 29, 2017
Messages
18
Wobbleszo: Sorry to tease you about the non-OCD cable management. I didn't mean to be harsh. From the photos, all evidence suggests you enjoy your hobby, which will keep you off the streets at least. <-- you see, I can't help myself.

The 36v system was the one I studied the longest. There's a lot going on there. Still, I say 'potential' because you have a ways to go yet to really power that 10kW split-phase beast of an inverter. Your transfer switch setup is by far the safest way to go on the AC side.

So many cells. I empathize. In my case, I need only remind myself that it's a hobby which means I have infinite time to complete what would otherwise be a daunting task ahead. Do it for the joy of it and that imminent feeling of accomplishment (my personal favorite).
 

Wobbleszo

New member
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
11
Shade said:
Wobbleszo: Sorry to tease you about the non-OCD cable management. I didn't mean to be harsh. From the photos, all evidence suggests you enjoy your hobby, which will keep you off the streets at least. <-- you see, I can't help myself.

The 36v system was the one I studied the longest. There's a lot going on there. Still, I say 'potential' because you have a ways to go yet to really power that 10kW split-phase beast of an inverter. Your transfer switch setup is by far the safest way to go on the AC side.

So many cells. I empathize. In my case, I need only remind myself that it's a hobby which means I have infinite time to complete what would otherwise be a daunting task ahead. Do it for the joy of it and that imminent feeling of accomplishment (my personal favorite).

I take no offense to the teasing...cable management for me is always less of a priority than other facets. I want to have everything work and then I might get to making it look pretty. Truthfully, I rarelyget back to making it look pretty. For the 36v setup, I was really just trying to get everything connected and see IF it even worked. I tried to route the wires in the best way I could thing of in terms of using the least wire to accomplish what I wanted. with the 10kW inverter, I can power it for about 36 hours with a few small loads using the 14s, 60p. I have tried to be reasonably safe where it made economic sense. I realized afterward that I should have cell level fuses, so I will be doing that for the next 14. I think with the 14s, 200p I should have over 27kWh to put into service as compared with the 6.5 kWh battery currently in place.
 

Korishan

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Staff member
Joined
Jan 7, 2017
Messages
6,395
Why cut the wires short to make them tidy when you "might" need/want to move things and need to get "new" wire lengths. ;) Once everything is pretty much how you want, then you can snippy snip snip to make things cleaner and easier to manage.
 

Wobbleszo

New member
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
11
Over the past few weeks I continued processing work on cells; up to 1000 cells ready for building into new packs. Most of them are the Panasonic NCR18650BD with some LG2600mAh cells thrown in to the mix. I have ~300 cells that need to be re-wrapped and ~700-800 that still need to be processed. I've started looking at inverter fuses/breakers since safety is important, but when I looked at the AIMS manual for the 10kW inverter, it says to use no less than the short circuit protection. I'm having a difficult time finding exactly what that protections should be for the inverter. I tried using several different calculators (padding the 25% safety) and looking for additional information on the AIMS website (as well as searching online, but can't seem to find a good size of fuse/breaker to use. On one site it specifies differing levels of protection for a fuse vs. breaker. The only other person that I know of using the same inverter is Admin Mike, but wasn't 100% sure on using the same fuse from his build. I'm certainly open to suggestions from those with more experience on battery to inverter protection.


image_vqcqzx.jpg


If you're interested, I continue to update my site with additional details:
https://sites.google.com/view/wobbleszo/home
 

Wobbleszo

New member
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
11
Small update on progress of processing cells: 1680 milestone for 14s, 120p! I still have ~420 cells to process, but only 280 to make it closer to the build phase.I've determined that I'll use the sameBlue Sea Systems Class T Fuse like Mike did, but I think I am going to go with the 300A one instead of the 250A one. I was looking at the amperage range and the max with a 1.25 safety buffer was ~288A (3.1Vx 14 = 43.4V and 10000W/43.4V = 288.02A) please correct me if I'm wrong here!

Still need to decide on what to use for busbars, but leaning toward 3 strands of 4AWG grounding wire twisted and crimped, but then I need to figure out what size of crimp end to use to fit both ends into (6 strands of 4AWG). More maths! I appreciate the support of this community and my friends and family through this long process!


at 1640
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at 1680
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Korishan

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Staff member
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Messages
6,395
You really work on an alien space craft, don't you? Look at all those greys!!! :p
 

hbpowerwall

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Staff member
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Oct 7, 2016
Messages
1,912
I have NCR18650 Envy
 

Wobbleszo

New member
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
11
Just a quick update,

I got 1700 more cells (NCR18650BD) from a recycler and all the wrappers are damaged. I reached out to Keith and got 1700 more wrappers and 170 more cell holders to add them into my design. I am going to follow Mike's approach with the 300p packs...particularly after Pete's last livestream (wishing he'd gone with larger packs). I got solid 4AWG to use for busbars and have nearly finished processing the all the cells I have. After I rewrap the 1700 new ones, I will start construction one the upgraded packs.
 

AjaykumarMore

New member
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
1
[diy]undefined[/diy]
Wobbleszo said:
Small update on progress of processing cells: 1680 milestone for 14s, 120p! I still have ~420 cells to process, but only 280 to make it closer to the build phase.I've determined that I'll use the sameBlue Sea Systems Class T Fuse like Mike did, but I think I am going to go with the 300A one instead of the 250A one. I was looking at the amperage range and the max with a 1.25 safety buffer was ~288A (3.1Vx 14 = 43.4V and 10000W/43.4V = 288.02A) please correct me if I'm wrong here!

Still need to decide on what to use for busbars, but leaning toward 3 strands of 4AWG grounding wire twisted and crimped, but then I need to figure out what size of crimp end to use to fit both ends into (6 strands of 4AWG). More maths! I appreciate the support of this community and my friends and family through this long process!


at 1640
image_kwglez.jpg


at 1680
image_atbhed.jpg
 

Wobbleszo

New member
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
11
Updated on my site too, but I figured I might as well post here too...nearly 4 months later, I am still waiting on my cell order from a shipper that apparently sent the order to my road, but got the house number wrong and the order was returned to Georgia. He's offered 200 cells to be added over a month ago as part of an apology, but I'd really just like the cells I ordered. They all have damaged wrappers, but should be like new otherwise. I bought 1700 wrappers from Keith and cell holders too, but I am just waiting to assembler my battery. I don't want to build with what I have and then turn around and have to do it all over again if/when these cells arrive. I am starting to get really frustrated at having to wait so long! I thought by now I'd be taking full advantage of the bright summer sun, but I feel like it'll be winter before I get a chance to assemble it all. I wish that I'd have just contacted Tom Amerman or Terry Nagy instead...at least they ship at a reasonable pace. The difficult part was the price for these cells. NCR18650BDs at 3200 mAh each for less than $1 each due to the damaged wrappers. Falls under the age old adage of "if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is." He shipped the previous orders a little slowly, but not 4 months after the order.

#feelingimpatient #feelinghopeless

Hope that the rest of you are having better luck...like Pete with his mad processing lately!


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jamilflorez

New member
Joined
Jan 23, 2019
Messages
2
Wobbleszo said:
Hello Second Life Storage,

I wanted to post my project here. The current state is a WIP and to simplify things I have simply been posting updates to my Google site (https://sites.google.com/view/wobbleszo/home). I don't have any ads or anything to make revenue (mostly just share my progress with family and friends).


To Do List:

  1. Build new 14s, 200p 300p pack from the 3200mAh cells Panasonic NCR 18650BD (usingfuse wire this time)
  2. Mount remaining solar panels for better charging (8x 150W Mighty Max and28x Renogy 100W panels)...they are all on the roof and wired, but need actual mounting
  3. Keep re-wrapping cells and breaking down packs, 1700 more added that need to be rewrapped
  4. Reinstall disconnects
  5. Upgrade Sunkko 709AD+ spot welder pen to one like Mike N or Average Joe did (very nice!)
  6. disassemble ~65 x 36Vhover board packs 20 cells each (10s, 2p)
  7. disassemble 14s, 60p battery
  8. construct second 14s, 200p pack from mixed cells
High level information:
  • 2x MakeSkyBlue 60ACharge controllers
  • 1x Aims 10kW pure sine wave inverter
  • 6,000+ cells (~4000+ Panasonic NCR 18650BD)
  • 8 gauge cable used for panel to charge controller
  • 4/0 used to connect battery to Inverter
  • 1x batrium BMS v4 kit used with 14 Longmons
  • 6 gauge solid wire to be used for the busbars

I'm sure I am forgetting something, but that is why there's an edit button!



image_mkzubq.jpg

image_fuffjf.jpg

image_csgwto.jpg

image_ozdzqi.jpg

image_tkzufi.jpg

image_qfiglk.jpg

image_exidvn.jpg

image_ouaocc.jpg

image_ldqppj.jpg

image_eyvmkt.jpg

image_jujatr.jpgimage_ycdijp.jpg


Edited 04.28.2019 for update of details and progress (plus added one photo).


Excellent!!! I see that you have spent a lot of time and effort, such effort inspires love !!! I greet you from Colombia dear friend

PS: Your personal site is great ;)
 

hbpowerwall

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Staff member
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Messages
1,912
Grey goodness!
 
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