Zanflair,Opus and LiitoKala Tests

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Wolf

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Sep 25, 2018
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Greetings,

So I decided to purchased 4 brand new Samsung 25R batteries and test my charge discharge setup.
Here are the results of the test in a spreadsheet.
Opus seems to havethe edge on rated capacity accuracy but lacks inthe mR department. The mR readings seem to be closer with the wire mod.
Zanflair is consistently high (8% to 11%)but seems to be more accurate in the mR readings.
LiitoKala is running the test right now and tonight I will have the results also the mR seems to be consistent.
Anyone want to guess the outcome of the LiitoKala mAh test?
Also does anyone have a clue as to the discrepancy between the 2 testers? Different voltage cutoffs maybe?
But I thought this would be an interesting experiment so now I label all batteries with the mAh and put an O, Z, or L next to it to let me know which unit the results came from and can adjust the powerwall build accordingly.
Although a 10% (to the highside) deviance is really not that much. Thoughts?

Wolf


image_xvjesp.jpg
 
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lane5625

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WOW, no one replied. Well I'm interested in the results. I use the Opus 2 and the Liitokala. I'd love to know if there was a discrepancy.
 

Wolf

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I will know tonight and post the updated spreadsheet tomorrow AM.

Wolf
 

Korishan

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lane5625 said:
WOW, no one replied. Well I'm interested in the results. I use the Opus 2 and the Liitokala. I'd love to know if there was a discrepancy.

We're waiting on the last test results ;)
 

Crimp Daddy

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Nice test... the only thing I would like to see in addition to all of that is the same test conducted with a good quality calibrated hobby / RC charger to see how close these chargers get to the actual capacity of the cell.
 

Wolf

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The results are in so far Opus and LiitoKala are the winners.
With LiitoKala the winner at this point with good mR and mAh readings.
Zanflair has inflated mAh readings IMHObut this could be due to a different discharge profile. Although we do know that the original batterisare2500mAh raited and that is what theyshould test as no matter what, at least that is what I think.
Crimp Daddy I will run this test also on a Hobby charger. I do not have one so give me your choices of good, better, and best and I will purchase it and continue this test. Obviously price is a slight concern but not a deal breaker.
I will also test the ZB206 and the ZB2L3 boards in the near future. Too cold in the shed to be soldering and cutting Lexan.
Any other chargers/testers anybody want to have included in this test let me know and I will try to get it and run the test $ in my account willing as I do not have unlimited funds. :)
Im also thinking of ordering another LiitoKala as I think 2 of each is a good consistency test
OK here is the Spreadsheet.


Wolf

image_nfowen.jpg
 

Crimp Daddy

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@wattwenger

I've used a few over the years andI recommend iCharger if you are looking to buy one... they are pretty dang good. Something like a 106B, 206B, or X6 would be more than enough to test single cells and then some.

They have models that range from $90 to $400... but my experience had been good across the board. Lots of capability and features even on the smaller models.

I do like than you can calibrate these things if you dont agree with the voltages, along with the features and more control over voltages on charge and discharge when compared to other models.


image_goxksn.jpg



image_gidsob.jpg
 

Wolf

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OK Crimp Daddy choice is between 106B+ and the X6. Im leaning toward the X6. I will buy on your recommendation either one but not both. :D

Then I will run the test on all 4 batteries individually and document the results. This then could be our baseline to calculate the results of off the shelf units. Hopefully my pro 18650 holders will be here by then.
Also what do you mean adjustable? I understand that you can set the max charge/dischargeV and also the Amps but what I am trying to do is duplicate the testing procedure of a nonadjustable off the shelf tester to determine the accuracy of them comparatively to each other. I certainly am not going to check 2000 cells 1 at a time it would take me a year of Sundays to get even close to a powerwall build. The idea is to be able to test cells en masse and be confident that your mAh readings are at least close. I also understand the theory that if you test with the same testers that has the same deviation that your results although wrong will be consistently wrong. OK maybe Im a purist with OCD with a touch of Asperger but I dont like wrong results no matter how consistent.
That being said I do see the advantage of these icharger/testers when a pack is built, to be able to test the pack and recharge to a storage voltage. Also when you have Xp6S packs you can at least balance charge them as you go toward whatever youre XS pack size will be. Mine will be 14S.

Wolf
 

keaton85

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Personally, I like ISDT chargers and they are cheaper than the iChargers. I used the SC-620 which is 500W if you have a large enough power supply. Check them out!
 

Crimp Daddy

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I cant comment specifically on ISDT and their chargers, I do have their balancing cell checker and think its pretty good.

My biggest comment / concern over the many years using RC chargers is customization and options iCharger has always did a good job with that. Good internal resistance tester, granular control over cell voltages, ability to calibrate just go through the manual and its pretty comprehensive. I consider it more of a battery TOOL than just a charger.

Can the ISDT set charge, discharge, and balance voltages as custom? For example a 4.14, 4.15, 4.16 termination on charge. External discharge and regenerative charging have been huge features for me. Being able to discharge at high currents has come in very handy.
 

MissSolar

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May 20, 2018
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Wolf said:
Greetings,

So I decided to purchased 4 brand new Samsung 25R batteries and test my charge discharge setup.
Here are the results of the test in a spreadsheet.
Opus seems to havethe edge on rated capacity accuracy but lacks inthe mR department. The mR readings seem to be closer with the wire mod.
Zanflair is consistently high (8% to 11%)but seems to be more accurate in the mR readings.
LiitoKala is running the test right now and tonight I will have the results also the mR seems to be consistent.
Anyone want to guess the outcome of the LiitoKala mAh test?
Also does anyone have a clue as to the discrepancy between the 2 testers? Different voltage cutoffs maybe?
But I thought this would be an interesting experiment so now I label all batteries with the mAh and put an O, Z, or L next to it to let me know which unit the results came from and can adjust the powerwall build accordingly.
Although a 10% (to the highside) deviance is really not that much. Thoughts?

Wolf


image_xvjesp.jpg
HI

do you mind testing with a foxnovo if you have one

thanks
 

Wolf

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Messages
1,622
I have orderd theFoxnovo F-4S 4-Slots Li-ion Ni-MH Ni-CD LCD Intelligent Battery Charger.

image_jlquzc.jpg


I will test it and report the results as soon as it arrives.

Wolf
 

Wolf

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MissSolar said:
HI

do you mind testing with a foxnovo if you have one

thanks


Foxnov tested.

Results are OK little on the low side but thats better then over.

dont like the tester because of other reasons
1 noIR measuring even if it would be questionable.
2 cant turn the beeper off
3 cannot set an auto charge discharge and recharge. Must wait for charge to finish on ALL cells to initiate a discharge test and recharge.

image_lseeno.jpg



Wolf
 

MissSolar

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Wolf said:
MissSolar said:
HI

do you mind testing with a foxnovo if you have one

thanks


Foxnov tested.

Results are OK little on the low side but thats better then over.

dont like the tester because of other reasons
1 noIR measuring even if it would be questionable.
2 cant turn the beeper off
3 cannot set an auto charge discharge and recharge. Must wait for charge to finish on ALL cells to initiate a discharge test and recharge.

image_lseeno.jpg



Wolf

Thanks for your reply

the beeper IS an issue.... to discharge and recharge do long press on the button instead of seeing CHG you will see CAP that will charge to max , discharge (testing capacity) and recharge to 4.2V.

I also saw that you made your own battery holder have you tried t design the common one most of us buy?

regards
 

Wolf

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Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
1,622
MissSolar said:
Wolf said:
MissSolar said:
HI

do you mind testing with a foxnovo if you have one

thanks


Foxnov tested.

Results are OK little on the low side but thats better then over.

dont like the tester because of other reasons
1 noIR measuring even if it would be questionable.
2 cant turn the beeper off
3 cannot set an auto charge discharge and recharge. Must wait for charge to finish on ALL cells to initiate a discharge test and recharge.

image_lseeno.jpg



Wolf

Thanks for your reply

the beeper IS an issue.... to discharge and recharge do long press on the button instead of seeing CHG you will see CAP that will charge to max , discharge (testing capacity) and recharge to 4.2V.

I also saw that you made your own battery holder have you tried t design the common one most of us buy?

regards

Aha OK i will give that a try long press. :D

Battery holder? which one are you talking about?

Wolf
 

MissSolar

New member
Joined
May 20, 2018
Messages
4
Wolf said:
MissSolar said:
Wolf said:
MissSolar said:
HI

do you mind testing with a foxnovo if you have one

thanks


Foxnov tested.

Results are OK little on the low side but thats better then over.

dont like the tester because of other reasons
1 noIR measuring even if it would be questionable.
2 cant turn the beeper off
3 cannot set an auto charge discharge and recharge. Must wait for charge to finish on ALL cells to initiate a discharge test and recharge.

image_lseeno.jpg



Wolf

Thanks for your reply

the beeper IS an issue.... to discharge and recharge do long press on the button instead of seeing CHG you will see CAP that will charge to max , discharge (testing capacity) and recharge to 4.2V.

I also saw that you made your own battery holder have you tried t design the common one most of us buy?

regards

Aha OK i will give that a try long press. :D

Battery holder? which one are you talking about?

Wolf

Mistake on battery holder... sorry
 

Wolf

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Messages
1,622
Here is the conclusion of the charger tests.

Review of common 4 cell chargers.
This is an independent review of 4 cell chargers / analyzers, referred to as C/A from now on, thatwe all use.
Alphabetically evaluated no previous preference was give to any charger.
All of these chargers where initially tested with 4brand new Samsung 25F cell for mAh readings Voltageconsistency and IR consistency.
All chargers use a spring type slider to insert the cells between the contacts.
Only 18650 Cells have been used in these tests as it is what we mostly use.
All cells are relatively easy to insert into the C/A but a pain to remove on all.
I will just give you the quick lowdown and not go into how to use the tester as the instruction manuals will tell you that.
The tested cells are brand new Samsung 25R.
The resultsare published below.


Foxnovo Digital Charger 4S

The Foxnovo ia a small compact C/A with limited features.
Slots are not independently controllable but if all you want to do is charge and check capacity
this is what it does and does it well. NoIR info but givesV and mAh.
Accuracy is close in mAh 1 to 4 percent lower.


LiitoKala Engineer Lii-500:

The LiitoKala is a small and compact C/Awith some nice features.
It has independent slot selection so you can set each slot to the parameters you want.
The IR readings are close and pretty consistent even with used cells
The mAh are slightly higher than the cell rating about 2 to 4.5 percent.


Opus BT-C3100

The Opusis a medium sizeded C/A.
It has independent slot selection so you can set each slot to the parameters you want.
The IR readings are all over the place and very inconsistent The manual says to deduct at least 30m? from you reading as contact resistance is included in the IR measurement.
The IRtest requires that you entera separate mode.
I do like that if you hit the slot button 5 times it selects all the slots for you to be able to change the mode and current globally.
Capacity measurements are close and are 1.5 to 4 percent high.

Zanflair

The Zanflair is a large sizedC/A
It has independent slot selection so you can set each slot to the parameters you want.
The IR readings are displayed without changing the present mode you are in all you need to do is push the slot button. It scrolls through all the parameters for that cell.
IR is high but close on a new cell but salvaged cells seem to read high. Maybe because of the artifacts left on the cell contacts.
It does not remember the last mode and defaults to charging when a cell is inserted. If you insert 4 cells very quickly and you push the mode button 3 times quickly it will put all slots into NOR mode.
Capacity measurements are 8 to 11 percenthigh.

XTAR Dragon VP4 Plus

The XTAR is a very large C/A

It has semiindependent slot selectionyou can set slot 1 &4 and2 &3 independently.
IR readings are achieved by plugging in the probes supplied with the unit and touching them together to enterinto IR mode. I wassurprisedat how close the IR readings where with just a 2 wire system. Pretty much on the money.
the mAh readings where-4 to +6 percent.
The unit has no voltage readings showing on the display but it shows the current going in while charging and displays the discharge current. A Little confusing at first as when done it flashes both readings back and forth. Leds on the slot show what stage it is in.

Nitecore SC4

The Nitecore SC4is a medium sized charger only.
It has kind of a good / bad IR indicator and does show a value although mostly higher than actual but not by much.
Does show how much mAhs you put into the battery.


So in conclusion:
I do like the Foxnovo and the LiitoKala and a close 3rd the Opusas they are close to accuracy on new cells withmAh readings.
If I didn't have a dedicated IRtester (YR1030)I would go with the LiitoKala or the XTAR.
Since I do have an IRtester my choice is the Foxnovo it is compact can charge and discharge at 1A or 500mA and is simple to use.The only qualm I have is the beeping. That can be solved with a little DIY magic. The Opus which is my 3rd choice is overall OK but has some flaws as we all know.
Does anyone want to buy my 3 Zanflairs? I'm willing to sell them cheep.:D

You can see my spread sheet athttps://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UOQUXa4Kwa99KoeuNDe7EV3iSECb8iIs

Wolf
 

Cherry67

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I wonder if the above would NOT appear in the FAQ.
 

Korishan

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Cherry67

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