I'm so stupid my wife is going to kill me.

I just tried to purchase the wrong pip from mpp solar I have canceled two other orders as well. I am so stupid that would have been a disaster, I am so glad mpp solar messaged me and told me it would not work. I have been researching backup power systems for about five months and my biggest mistake was not realizing I was trying to copy someone's setup from another country.

In the United States we have two phase 240v in his country he has single. I ordered from ebay what he was using and I thought that's what I need. I'm an idiot it clearly says single phase on the ebay description.
For now on I will be asking before I buy.
So here it goes. I think i need a PIP 2424LV MSD, 7s80p 18650 powerwall, batrium watchmon 7, offgridinthecity has an awesome transfer switch where I could turn on 1 circuit at a time. And would it be possible to have a grid tie like the ABB PVI-3.0-OUTD-S-US run off the same solar panel system it says starting volts 90v.
My wife wants to replace the flooring in the house and thinks this is stupid. But if I can keep it to $500 here $500 there I think I could get away with it. She was ok with the wrong $300 inverter I stupidly bought. (I haven't told her yet and I think we should keep that are little secret).
Please help me with this project so I don't burn the garage down I still have a ton of questions and dont know if i am researching the correct answer.
I would also like to say the reason I am doing this. My wife works at home and my daughter has been doing online schooling. We live at the end of the grid and have had 2 power outages in 3 months ( one time was sunny with no wind).
And if it storms we will at least get flickering or an outage. I install fiber optic cable and typically work around 1 to 3hrs from home any longer and we will stay at a hotel for the week.
I would like to have something where she could just flip a switch when I am not there. We also plan on moving within 4 years and I plan on having a house built and taking my powerwall but leaving the system to hopefully increase resale value (at least that's what I am telling the wife). I need the grid tie so I can tell her it is paying for itself. Any help at all would be great.

elkeith108 said:

In the United States we have two phase 240v in his country he has single.

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The US has split-phase, which is technically single phase

elkeith108 said:

I haven't told her yet and I think we should keep that are little secret

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I'm not here to give marital advice, but I don't think that's the best way to handle the situation. LOL

elkeith108 said:

Please help me with this project so I don't burn the garage down

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It needs to be put OUTSIDE and away from your house. Not in the house or garage...

elkeith108 said:

I think i need a PIP 2424LV MSD

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Have you considered the AIMS inverters instead of MPP Solar? AIMS is low frequency which has much better starting current, especially for inductive loads.

elkeith108 said:

I am so glad mpp solar messaged me and told me it would not work

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MPP Solar is a great company, especially for the price. I do not use their inverters (I have an AIMS 10kW) but I have three of their PCM60X charge controllers. They are rock solid chargers!

I have a detached garage. And I will look at the aims inverter is there any special model I should consider.

Not sure of your battery voltage. AIMS pure sine wave (the blue ones) come as 120v OR 120/240v depending on the model. They have a few ETL (e.g. UL) models for added peace of mind but cost more for the certification. Similar to @mike I run large 120/240v AIMS (over a year now with average of 11hrs/day thru all of 2019) and use 240v to run my Rheems hybrid hot water heater, the cooktop, the rainharvest water pump, and the whole house heat/air heatpump - the rest is 120v.

If you provide your battery voltage and the amount of power you need (or the list of things you want to run) I'd be happy to point you to some specific AIMS.

OffGridInTheCity said:

Not sure of your battery voltage. AIMS pure sine wave (the blue ones) come as 120v OR 120/240v depending on the model. They have a few ETL (e.g. UL) models for added peace of mind but cost more for the certification. Similar to @mike I run large 120/240v AIMS (over a year now with average of 11hrs/day thru all of 2019) and use 240v to run my Rheems hybrid hot water heater, the cooktop, the rainharvest water pump, and the whole house heat/air heatpump - the rest is 120v.

If you provide your battery voltage and the amount of power you need (or the list of things you want to run) I'd be happy to point you to some specific AIMS.

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24v and I would like to keep load small say 1500 watts max.

elkeith108 said:

OffGridInTheCity said:

Not sure of your battery voltage. AIMS pure sine wave (the blue ones) come as 120v OR 120/240v depending on the model. They have a few ETL (e.g. UL) models for added peace of mind but cost more for the certification. Similar to @mike I run large 120/240v AIMS (over a year now with average of 11hrs/day thru all of 2019) and use 240v to run my Rheems hybrid hot water heater, the cooktop, the rainharvest water pump, and the whole house heat/air heatpump - the rest is 120v.

If you provide your battery voltage and the amount of power you need (or the list of things you want to run) I'd be happy to point you to some specific AIMS.

Click to expand...

24v and I would like to keep load small say 1500 watts max.

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I use a 2424LV-MSD right now and it runs most of my loads in my house. It all depends on what you consider small loads. For example my fridge only takes 200W to run but during start-up it probably spikes up to 1500W easily. If I had an existing load of1000W and the fridge kicks in, it will trip the inverter. I have it set to switch back to grid when that happens, and in 10 minutes it will switch back to battery. Same goes for my 3/4 HP pool pump. It takes 700-900W to run, but the starting surge is too much for the PIP. So for the first 10 minutes it runs on grid then it flips back to battery for the rest of the day. All those above mentioned are inductive loads. Resistive loads like toasters/computers/tv/stereo are fine and doesn't exhibit those surges. I also have a 12000btu mini-split A/C that works off a inverter compressor, so it doesn't cold start like a normal window unit a/c, and that works very well with my PIP.

The question now is the 48V. I've been running 24V and it does liimit you in the future, as larger units tend to be 48V. So less upgradability. But seeing I bought my 2424LV for $550 shipped, it's not really a heavy investment for something that has everything built into it. My house over the winter uses 15-20kwh daily and it's running like a champ. But I purchased this unit 3 years ago, and now I see Mppsolar has a 48V version. I have no idea how much it costs and may be worth looking into...
https://www.mppsolar.com/v3/lv-mk/.

The AIMs may be built tougher, with more surge handling capability. The downsides is that you still need to purchase a MPPT charge controller, so added costs.

elkeith108 said:

OffGridInTheCity said:

Not sure of your battery voltage. AIMS pure sine wave (the blue ones) come as 120v OR 120/240v depending on the model. They have a few ETL (e.g. UL) models for added peace of mind but cost more for the certification. Similar to @mike I run large 120/240v AIMS (over a year now with average of 11hrs/day thru all of 2019) and use 240v to run my Rheems hybrid hot water heater, the cooktop, the rainharvest water pump, and the whole house heat/air heatpump - the rest is 120v.

If you provide your battery voltage and the amount of power you need (or the list of things you want to run) I'd be happy to point you to some specific AIMS.

Click to expand...

24v and I would like to keep load small say 1500 watts max.

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You didn't say 120v vs 240v - so here's a 24vdc@120vac 2000w AIMS on clearance -https://theinverterstore.com/product/2000-watt-pure-sine-inverter-charger-3/ as an example.
This family of AIMS support 20secs at 3 x the rated watts for surge - e.g.6000w @ 20sec - so it can run things with motors that have surge.

There are several ETL certified versions for 24v - 4000w and 6000w at 120v only or 120v/240v. You can see the 24v ETL family here -https://www.aimscorp.net/UL-Listed-Power-Inverters/

So with the Aims I would have to spend about $1,000 (including mppt charger) and $550 for mpp solar. I think a UL1741 listed inverter is required to hook up to my grid. I would have purchase the AIMS 6000w UL1741 inverter for about $3500. I will ask the wife and see what she says. Thanks for all the help.

elkeith108 said:

So with the Aims I would have to spend about $1,000 (including mppt charger) and $550 for mpp solar. I think a UL1741 listed inverter is required to hook up to my grid. I would have purchase the AIMS 6000w UL1741 inverter for about $3500. I will ask the wife and see what she says. Thanks for all the help.

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Just to be clear - theAIMS I listed above isnot for grid-tie, its for off-grid applications and the6000w is not $3500 - its more like $1700.

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BTW - To get my wife to approve my solar purchases, I went on a wine/dine mission - and it not only got me approval to spend (and I did buy some bad things, blew up some things also)but also a happier marriage! So see - solar can have side benefits

Well that was fun. She said so one is $500 and one is going to be $1000 what is the difference, and I'm like the one is 2400 watts the other is 2000 watts, this one is an all in one unit the other I would have to buy a charger this one has a software program. I told her the Aims was better she said what makes it better and that I should just get the $500 one. So my question is why is it better, I had no response except for build quality. And should I just get the 2424lv and would it work with the generator transfer switch.

not2bme u said, I use a 2424LV-MSD right now and it runs most of my loads in my house. It all depends on what you consider small loads. For example my fridge only takes 200W to run but during start-up it probably spikes up to 1500W easily. If I had an existing load of1000W and the fridge kicks in, it will trip the inverter. I have it set to switch back to grid when that happens, and in 10 minutes it will switch back to battery. Same goes for my 3/4 HP pool pump. It takes 700-900W to run, but the starting surge is too much for the PIP. So for the first 10 minutes it runs on grid then it flips back to battery for the rest of the day. All those above mentioned are inductive loads. Resistive loads like toasters/computers/tv/stereo are fine and doesn't exhibit those surges. I also have a 12000btu mini-split A/C that works off a inverter compressor, so it doesn't cold start like a normal window unit a/c, and that works very well with my PIP.

The question now is the 48V. I've been running 24V and it does liimit you in the future, as larger units tend to be 48V. So less upgradability. But seeing I bought my 2424LV for $550 shipped, it's not really a heavy investment for something that has everything built into it. My house over the winter uses 15-20kwh daily and it's running like a champ. But I purchased this unit 3 years ago, and now I see Mppsolar has a 48V version. I have no idea how much it costs and may be worth looking into...
https://www.mppsolar.com/v3/lv-mk/.

The AIMs may be built tougher, with more surge handling capability. The downsides is that you still need to purchase a MPPT charge controller, so added costs.
[/quote]

So your inverter trips everytime your surge is too high, then your power supply for loads switches to grid power? Is that ok to trip your inverter that often? Also how does a fella add that function to his setup if its ok to trip inverter that often?

OffGridInTheCity said:

elkeith108 said:

So with the Aims I would have to spend about $1,000 (including mppt charger) and $550 for mpp solar. I think a UL1741 listed inverter is required to hook up to my grid. I would have purchase the AIMS 6000w UL1741 inverter for about $3500. I will ask the wife and see what she says. Thanks for all the help.

Click to expand...

Just to be clear - theAIMS I listed above isnot for grid-tie, its for off-grid applications and the6000w is not $3500 - its more like $1700.

---

BTW - To get my wife to approve my solar purchases, I went on a wine/dine mission - and it not only got me approval to spend (and I did buy some bad things, blew up some things also)but also a happier marriage! So see - solar can have side benefits

Click to expand...

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I'm sorry I thought the only reason to get a ul listed inverter was to grid tie( I am so stupid). So here is another question would I be able to use the same solar panels to feed an off grid inverter and a grid tie inverter at the same time or with some type of a switch. I have found a grid tie that has input of 90v and is only $500 that is UL1741. I told my wife this system would pay for itself and promised her the world and it wouldn't cost that much, she still wants new floors.

Yes u can use same panels to feed grid tie inverter and an offgrid inverter.. they both would have to be powered by batteries. The panels just supply power for batteries and then u can draw off the batteries for power for as many inverters as u want.
Which gridtie inverter did u find thats UL conformed and is only $500

elkeith108 said:

Well that was fun. She said so one is $500 and one is going to be $1000 what is the difference, and I'm like the one is 2400 watts the other is 2000 watts, this one is an all in one unit the other I would have to buy a charger this one has a software program. I told her the Aims was better she said what makes it better and that I should just get the $500 one. So my question is why is it better, I had no response except for build quality. And should I just get the 2424lv and would it work with the generator transfer switch.

Click to expand...

So the thread is a bit fuzzy for me. If you asking - should I buy MPP Solar vs AIMS I have no objection. I can only attest that AIMS works well for me. I do nothave hands-on with PIP (e.g.MPP Solar) but folks like HBPowerwall and others comment well on them. I think a keyquestion is what you plan to run.

Things like power tools (e.g. like a table saw) require larger start-up amps where as refrigerators are not as big a deal and computers, hot plates, microwaves are all fine (don't have surge). So I would figure out what you plan to run and just verify that what you buy is adequate.

Doin it said:

Yes u can use same panels to feed grid tie inverter and an offgrid inverter.. they both would have to be powered by batteries. The panels just supply power for batteries and then u can draw off the batteries for power for as many inverters as u want.
Which gridtie inverter did u find thats UL certified and is only $500

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Aurora-Powerone-PVI-3.6-3600W-Solar-Grid-tie-inverter-2MPPT $525 on ebay. But I am talking about using the pv wires from the solar panels and connecting them directly to each inverter in parallel to the 2424 and the Aurora Powerone or using a switch to change which inverter the panels are feeding is this possible, it sounds possible in my head.

elkeith108 said:

Doin it said:

Yes u can use same panels to feed grid tie inverter and an offgrid inverter.. they both would have to be powered by batteries. The panels just supply power for batteries and then u can draw off the batteries for power for as many inverters as u want.
Which gridtie inverter did u find thats UL certified and is only $500

Click to expand...

Aurora-Powerone-PVI-3.6-3600W-Solar-Grid-tie-inverter-2MPPT $525 on ebay. But I am talking about using the pv wires from the solar panels and connecting them directly to each inverter in parallel to the 2424 and the Aurora Powerone or using a switch to change which inverter the panels are feeding is this possible, it sounds possible in my head.

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U cant run an offgrid inverter directly from panels, that aurora is a high voltage inverter, not 90v. I think it said 120v minimum input voltage from pv

Is the operating voltage 90v to 580v dc. I would have a 7s80p battery hooked to the 2424lv. Or should I go another way.

U right. It did say something about needing 120v, maybe that was for the mppt

OffGridInTheCity said:

elkeith108 said:

Well that was fun. She said so one is $500 and one is going to be $1000 what is the difference, and I'm like the one is 2400 watts the other is 2000 watts, this one is an all in one unit the other I would have to buy a charger this one has a software program. I told her the Aims was better she said what makes it better and that I should just get the $500 one. So my question is why is it better, I had no response except for build quality. And should I just get the 2424lv and would it work with the generator transfer switch.

Click to expand...

So the thread is a bit fuzzy for me. If you asking - should I buy MPP Solar vs AIMS I have no objection. I can only attest that AIMS works well for me. I do nothave hands-on with PIP (e.g.MPP Solar) but folks like HBPowerwall and others comment well on them. I think a keyquestion is what you plan to run.

Things like power tools (e.g. like a table saw) require larger start-up amps where as refrigerators are not as big a deal and computers, hot plates, microwaves are all fine (don't have surge). So I would figure out what you plan to run and just verify that what you buy is adequate.

Click to expand...

Fuzzy, I can't even see straight. I would not be using any power tools on this system this would hopefully only be used for my wife's office, my daughter and sons laptops for school and maybe my cpap machine. Sorry to make it so confusing I really don't want to get the wrong system for my needs.

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Doin it said:

U right. It did say something about needing 120v, maybe that was for the mppt

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I guess I have to ask what is the max voltage of panels the 2424lv can take and what is the minimum the Aurora can have.

I went ahead and ordered the mpp solar 2424LV MSD. The said it was on back order until mid April which sounds great under the circumstances.