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Falling Battery Prices ....
#1
Photo 
Here's an interesting chart I stumbled upon !! 



Solar panels also show a similar curve!
completelycharged likes this post
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#2
My actual cost (no including pack building labor) has been $307/kwh so far (2018/2019) buying 'good' (95% original specs) used batteries from Alarm Hookup and similar.
If you add in the 30% US Federal tax credit - it goes down to $215/kwh in theory. Unfortunately, I don't make enough money to get credit for the entire 30% tax credit in 1 year... so it s a multi-year cost savings game.
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#3
(08-28-2019, 02:50 AM)OffGridInTheCity Wrote: My actual cost (no including pack building labor) has been $307/kwh so far (2018/2019)  buying 'good' (95% original specs) used batteries from Alarm Hookup and similar. 
That seems a high price for used , you need to pressure your supplier for a reduction ... New cells can be bought for less....

For comparison a fairly high capacity NEW 18650 holds 10Whrs ... 100 would hold 1KW  ...$2 each gives a price of $200/KwHr on the chart ...

We are reaching the point where re using is not sensible ....

Look at the price in 2010 or even 2014 ... then it made good sense ....
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#4
The $100/kwh is manufacturer direct pricing in bulk (multi-million cells). We will not see that pricing at retail for quite some time, if ever. And I don't believe that $100/kwh includes the cost of pack assembly or anything, just the raw cells, correct?
Formerly known as Dallski
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#5
(08-28-2019, 04:07 AM)Generic Wrote: The $100/kwh is manufacturer direct pricing in bulk (multi-million cells). We will not see that pricing at retail for quite some time, if ever. And I don't believe that $100/kwh includes the cost of pack assembly or anything, just the raw cells, correct?

This chart is not for bulk (million cell) buying .... 

The tests done on Queen batteries by a member here give a price of $200/Kw on purchases of around a 100 cells delivered to your door  , and that's what the graph shows $200 in 2019 ... At this price reusing is not sensible....

No reason to assume the graph is inaccurate and that prices will not continue to fall ....

We must not get stuck in a rut ! This enterprise may have been worthwhile 5 years ago , but sooner or latter we have to admit the truth ... 

I look at the powerwall I made 18 months  ago , and wish I had spent the money on new BIG cells
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#6
Here: 200Ah LiFePo4 cells for $ 250 kWh.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/40000012...2e0eR6f4Dl

When I found these 1,5 month ago they went for 210. So no price dropping in this case.
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#7
(08-28-2019, 05:19 AM)RikH Wrote: Here: 200Ah LiFePo4 cells for $ 250 kWh.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/40000012...2e0eR6f4Dl

When I found these 1,5 month ago they went for 210. So no price dropping in this case.

That's still a good price ... they are a different chemistry ...they have life of  3,000 cycles at 80% DOD (depth of discharge ) 

Li -ion would only give about 1,000 cycles at 80% DOD ... to get 3,000 cycles you would have to go to 70% DOD ( to be accurate , only use 70% of rated capacity , charge no higher than 3.97V/cell) ...

So if you want same capacity for same life you can get away with 10% less LiFe , that must account for the price difference . That and the fact they are in demand for cars ... perfect for replacing car battery , 4s gives the right voltage.

Edit ... on closer inspection those cells work out at less than $195/KwHr fantastic price ....... one cell is 3.2V x 200A = 640W x 16 = 10.2Kw hrs for $2000 ... then more cash discounts and free shipping!! ...

that same company cells 18650s at less than $2 .. (2600mAh) ...= $208/Kwhr
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#8
The price I'm seeing is $ 2,.498 for 16 pcs. But still.. For these prices we can't fiddle around with used cells.

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#9
(08-28-2019, 06:43 AM)RikH Wrote: The price I'm seeing is $ 2,.498 for 16 pcs. But still.. For these prices we can't fiddle around with used cells.

I clicked on your link and got this page .... http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/3nxOu8g0

$
1998 for 16 ... and another $11 off , discount vouchers ...and free shipping  ... I do live in Thailand ... 

Your recent price jump is probably due to US taxes ... didn't trump recently increase them for li cells ???? 

I'm very tempted to buy some , the price per cell is almost the same for 8 ....

Ah ... I see you're in Netherlands ... probably EU taxes

Li Fe is much more suited for solar powerwall ... the cycle life is dependent on depth of discharge , it does not like going low ...

The cycle life of li -ion is dependent on how high you charge ... it does not like going high ....

This means you can keep Li Fe fully charged , and if you don't need to fully discharge you have extended life greatly ...

You cannot do that with Li-ion ... it does not like being charged to 4.2V , you will only get 400 cycles ... 3.93V is best (3500cycles) but then you only get 65% of rated capacity , and an unexpected cloudy day could catch you out , and leave you short of power ...
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#10
I agree with you, better to go lifepo4 from the beginning. And yes, I changed Netherlands to Thailand and then your price popped up. Guess due to higher transportation cost and more government robbery.
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