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16s BMS advise
#21
(06-01-2020, 03:19 PM)400bird Wrote: Thanks for the help everyone. I'm going to order a chargery bms16. With this I can at least get each pack tested.

You are right, I am uncomfortable using just one BMS. But, I don't yet know what I will do.
Cool.   So I've just hookup up my 1st Chargery and I like it except for 'the shunt'.   The Chargery offers 3 modes for balance - Charge, Discharge, and Storage - and 2 modes to trip the shut-off relay - Charge/Discharge.    So you need the shunt if you care about distinquishing between charge/discharge for relay activation.

In my case I don't care about the shunt.  I connected charge/discharge control to the same relay, turned on balance for "Storage" mode, and have other means to see amps in/out.   

I mention this because there are different versions of Chargery that you can order.

The first one I ordered (16TPro) - with the shunt + separate display from BMS box - was $159 from this link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/192838533652  with 100a option.

However, a forum member pointed out this link with display integrated with the BMS box (it looks like) for $109 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/193273995213    I think its 16S (as apposed to 16TPro).   I haven't received the cheaper one yet - but I mention it here for you to consider as its confusing.

As a side note - Will Prose did a couple of pretty detailed youtubes on Charger Pro (with shunt) that you may find useful.  
Chargery 8T/16T LiFePO4/LTO/Li-Poly BMS Setup and Review  -  https://youtu.be/RfAv6kzebYY
Chargery BMS Part 2 (Advanced Discussion of Pitfalls)   -   https://youtu.be/YX1GrML_3_g

My objection to cheaper BMSs in general is that they don't show you what's going on / are they actually working unless you're willing to do phone apps.  I have iPhone (not android) and I don't care to use my phone for things like this anyway.  So from that standpoint,  $109 for a BMS with full-features, balance, display is a good price. 

Maybe lets us know how it goes once you get some things hooked up.  Its an interesting topic for sure Smile
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#22
Thanks for the video links. I should have watched those first ?‍♂️

I did order the $109 combined unit, I hope it does what I think. Off to watch the videos...
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#23
I now have both types of Chargery 16  BMS hooked up.     


The 16T (with 2 separate boxes) - works OK.  You can skip the shunt because there's a setting to let you balance in 'STORAGE' mode - otherwise it has to be charging or discharging (per the shunt) to balance. 
Notice the description #4 (this unit does balancing)  in comparison with the cheaper one in next paragraph.....
.....
3. Charge/discharge current up to 600A. Bigger current can be customized.  
4. 1.2A per cell balance current is very useful for large capacity battery pack, the feature can resume all cell 
voltage balance status at the shortest time. Over temperature protection make sure the system safety 
during balance. 
5. BMS16T calculate and display the charge and discharge power (Wh), generally the battery rated power is 
rated voltage multiply rated battery capacity. 


The cheaper all-in-one unit is disappointing.  Its missing several of the options you can set in the 16T - but most important (to me) it doesn't offer balancing - protection only.   
Notice that "Balancing" is not listed as a feature...  YIKES.  
.....
2. Charge/discharge current up to 300A continue, 600A burst.
3. BMS16 calculate and displaythe charge and discharge power (Wh), generally the battery rated power is rated voltage multiply rated battery capacity.
4. TFT LCD screen that provides rich information including current, voltage, power, capacity, control status, SOC and temperature and so on.
5. BMS16 features a maximal safety protection, within the range parameters can be setup, BMS16 will alarm and cutoff charge or discharge according to users’ setup, out 


I'm OK with the 16T (2 seperate boxes) but not OK with cheaper one.    

I see that you can no longer buy the 16X models of any kind - they have been removed from ebay and aliexpress says 'not available' if you try to order this date/time.
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#24
Well, that sucks!

I guess I missed that part or made a stupid assumption...

I wonder why it has been pulled from eBay and AliExpress? That's unusual.
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#25
>Well, that sucks!
Agreed - I went back and read the description.  Should have done that in the first place and could kick myself.   

The 16T is listed again here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/193543710606?ViewItem=&item=193543710606&var=493769072542&utm_source=unp&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PPX000608&utm_unptid=a9e3cbec-ba87-11ea-9ec5-b875c05523ba&ppid=PPX000608&cnac=US&rsta=en_US&cust=9AH44095BT812070L&unptid=a9e3cbec-ba87-11ea-9ec5-b875c05523ba&calc=e9d7c9425d46d&unp_tpcid=email-receipt-auction-payment&page=main:email:PPX000608:::&pgrp=main:email&e=cl&mchn=em&s=ci&mail=sys


I
ts starting to make some sense to me - the reason there are 2 boxes, is the balancing produces heat - and there's probably a heat sink in the 16T (one with 2 boxes).   The one with only 1 box - wouldn't have room for heat sink?

AND...  I think I understand the different prices for level of amps - e.g. 100a or 300a or 600a.   Its an internal setting limit only - since this requires an external relay that you have to buy.   The 100a only lets you set it up to 100a to allow the relay to continue to allow current.    Since I don't care about battery level 'over current' protection or use the shunt - then I just buy the 100a (lowest) and save $$.   If I were to pull > 100a it doesn't know it because I don't use the shunt - so it continues to work.
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#26
I saw the current limit thing and should have looked deeper at that too. Such a weird choice for them to charge more to increase the current limit if it is software only. Does it include a different current shunt for each current level?
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#27
(07-01-2020, 06:35 PM)400bird Wrote: I saw the current limit thing and should have looked deeper at that too. Such a weird choice for them to charge more to increase the current limit if it is software only. Does it include a different current shunt for each current level?
I don't know - my shunt is inside the APC and I can't see it.  I've ordered another unit and will look and see if the shunt itself has a rating.   Its a clever or nasty way to get more $ depending on how you look at it.   Me - I prefer transparency,  good docs, and simple operation so that I don't have to waste time reading the instructions Smile and 'learning all these gotchas'.     

I still remember that the original DOS PC (from 1980'ish) would let you get to the hard drive assembly code and change settings by interrupting the boot sequence and typing in g800 (or something like that) at the prompt..  its such useless information to clutter up my poor brain... and now I have unwanted Chargery details filling up the little bit of spare room that's left Smile
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#28
I choose the cynical view, it's nasty way to get more money.


I feel you on the memory thing, I wish I could flush useless facts about obsolete equipment that still sticks around, when I have to look up my anniversary every year.
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#29
With the chargery that is 2 separate units,, can it be used to only monitor cells and not balance? Later as the cells degrades I’d want to balance.
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#30
(07-03-2020, 07:40 PM)Doin it Wrote: With the chargery that is 2 separate units,, can it be used to only monitor cells and not balance? Later as the cells degrades I’d want to balance.
They make 2 different models.  The 2 unit model does protection+balancing and the single unit (with display built in) only does protection but no balance.
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