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Belgium people: united we should stand
#1
Hi all,

This post is more a less pointed to the Belgian people I saw posting stuff here...

I am convinced that trying to go off grid in the long run will be a financialy interesting thing to do, and it's also a very sustainable thing to do.

That's why I started harvesting cells and trying to find laptop batteries.

And that seems to be my biggest issue at the moment.

I tried contacting two recyclers with the question if it is possible to talk about buying larger quantities of old laptop batteries. And the answer was twice: "Sorry, regulations oblige us to recycle the batteries we collect, we can and may not sell them to other people that could have a use for them"

This makes it a very difficult thing to do now...

I dug around and did find one possibility.

It is possible to submit to OVAM a proposition for pilot project concerning recycling.

I'm sure that the way we proces the batteries (separating plastic, pcb, nickel and testing the cells) is far better than the way it is now done. They simply pyrolyze (burn) the batteries and recover the metals and that's about it. 

Are people interested in bundling forces to try and put a decent project proposition together to create some kind of alternative recycling route of laptop batteries, injecting the batteries in the diy powerwall market?

I am willing to put in some time and effort, as it could open up a big stash of laptop batteries to the community, in return we need to be willing to do the effort to put up a good project plan.

Anyone interested? Suggestions? Am I downright crazy trying to pull this off, or is this an idea?

Your thoughts are highly appreciated.

Regards,

Ivo Staelens
SemaJG and Wattsup like this post
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#2
Hi Ivo,

I really like the way you want to approach this, but I'm sure that the money will win over some testprojects to recover 18650 cells.
And don't forget, we have all paid for the recycling when we bought the pc, the drill, the ebike... So they "have to" do their job.

I focus on shops, before they send them to Bebat. Until now, I get a steady flow of batteries, but alot of store owners are afraid that we use them for reselling or get scrap money for them.

It's about finding these few niche shops who really do laptops more then desktops. Or the ebike shops are gone be a great source in the near future.
My wife is bycicle mechanic and the amount of batteries that are swapped is.... let's say... huge. Unfortunately the batteries today are often still NiMH or low capacity li-ion.

But once the current bike batteries are going faulty... It will be pure gold.... 2500 to 3000+mah
recently got a Bosch battery and all cells were 2700+, And there are alot of them inside and all clean!

Until now, I have not paid any of my suppliers. So if nobody does, it will not set a negative trend in Belgium. First one to do so will hurt everybody in the long run.

my 2 cents.
I'm in the process of building 14 packs of 80 cells for my future Powerwall. 
In the meantime, I make some videos about the build and the devices I use.

If you want to see them on YouTube, click on Sailing And Electronics
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#3
It is interesting to see with what kinds of problems you are dealing with and what your approach is.

However, I see certain problems in the long term.
First of all, it is a good thing that certain products have to be recycled by law. When these laws were made probably no one thought about reusing instead of recycling so what we really need now is reusing by law.

That leads the the second problem though because this gives a value to a product that otherwise would only have scrap value. And there is work involed and someone, likely the customer, has to pay for that. Imagine you have to pay someone for opening laptop batteries, cleaning the cells, testing them, sorting them and then put them in some kind of store to sell them.

And the third problem then is the small difference between scrap value/recycling value, reuse/resell value (before any work costs) and the value of a new cell. This is a commercial as well as an environmental issue. No one wants a reused cell which costs twice as much as a new one.

The whole concept doesn't work very well on cell level. It works for batteries the size of the ones for electric cars which will be the next big thing after reclaiming cells from electric bikes.
A possible solution could be a standard laptop battery, mandatory for all manufacturers worldwide. Something like this could be build in such a way that it could be disassembled down to individual cells by machines in a factory. Or, even better, user replaceable 18650s in a seperate compartment. Man, where did I get such a brilliant idea from?! But hey, good luck trying to implement such a thing...
Rad likes this post
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#4
Thanks for the honest and correct replies!

I indeed try to think out of the box and 99% of the times, there's a flaw somewhere Smile

But indeed I haven't tried any bike shop at the moment. That's a good extra source to dig into!

I start to build up a friendly relationship with some stores around here and little computer repair shops, just by calling them often, asking for batteries and letting them know I'm still around.

And indeed with the recupel it's true we paid for the recycling the moment we bought the appliance, so it should be recycled Smile

Thanks again!

Regards,

Ivo
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#5
What do you think about the NO PAYING approach?  If we all stick together, we can keep it like that ...

And the fewer the competition, the easier it will be ... Hahahaha

Can I claim East-Flanders....LOL
I'm in the process of building 14 packs of 80 cells for my future Powerwall. 
In the meantime, I make some videos about the build and the devices I use.

If you want to see them on YouTube, click on Sailing And Electronics
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#6
Dips on Limburg.... Big Grin

You got also keep in mind we are not recycling the battery's but more kind of reusing... bebat ( or other recycle ) has to recycle for raw materials like Darkraven mentions.
I d'ont think Ovam want it otherwise.

So good luck on the hunt Wink
___________________________________
18x 300Wp solar off grid and 10x 180Wp solar tracker grid-tie
10KW 3phase hybrid inverter. 40Kwh 18650 storage (for now)
My setup: https://secondlifestorage.com/t-Instant-powerwall
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#7
I claim West-Vlaanderen (joke of course, competition is welcome, we can always work together)

and I agree to keep it all non paying Smile
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#8
(09-25-2017, 06:27 PM)wim Wrote: Dips on Limburg.... Big Grin

You got also keep in mind we are not recycling the battery's but more kind of reusing... bebat ( or other recycle ) has to recycle for raw materials like Darkraven mentions.
I d'ont think Ovam want it otherwise.

So good luck on the hunt Wink

Sorry, I already had Limburg NL, I think its only fair those rights extend over the border
100kwh-hunter likes this post
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#9
(09-25-2017, 05:14 PM)Ivo Staelens Wrote: Thanks for the honest and correct replies!

I indeed try to think out of the box and 99% of the times, there's a flaw somewhere Smile

But indeed I haven't tried any bike shop at the moment. That's a good extra source to dig into!

I start to build up a friendly relationship with some stores around here and little computer repair shops, just by calling them often, asking for batteries and letting them know I'm still around.

And indeed with the recupel it's true we paid for the recycling the moment we bought the appliance, so it should be recycled Smile

Thanks again!

Regards,

Ivo
After calling two bike repair shops it was already bingo. I scored one battery he was gonna chuck that evening.

After opening I could harvest already 29 of those grey cells normaly having decent capacity (one had vented)

They passed the first voltage test and tomorrow I'll start charging them
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#10
Was there a brand on the box? can you post a picture of the case? it's helpfull.

I have a thread in "youtube vids" in the forum, especially on ebike batteries. Posting the pic in there can create a "database"...

http://secondlifestorage.com/t-E-bike-ba...ted-videos

29 cells... strange number, usually 7x, 8x, 9x or 10x.

or it was 29 good ones + one vented.
I'm in the process of building 14 packs of 80 cells for my future Powerwall. 
In the meantime, I make some videos about the build and the devices I use.

If you want to see them on YouTube, click on Sailing And Electronics
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