Standards Australia may ban Lithium Ion storage inside homes/garages

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station240

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http://reneweconomy.com.au/lithium-ion-battery-storage-may-be-banned-inside-australian-homes-57002/
Lithium-ion battery storage devices including Tesla Powerwalls and other products may be effectively banned from being installed inside homes and garages in Australia under new guidelines being drafted by Standards Australia.
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Standards Australia, a voluntary body that draws on expertise from the industries involved and key stakeholders, is expected to release the draft guidelines in the next week or so. But news of its proposals has already leaked, causing concern that the decision could bring the industry to a halt.
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It is believed Standard Australia will advise lithium-ion battery storage should only be installed in free-standing kiosks or effectively a bunker as one source described it which would likely add thousands of dollars to the cost of installation
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But then we have this new story
http://reneweconomy.com.au/standards-australia-delays-storage-guidelines-after-protests-35946/
Standards Australia appears to have delayed the release of guidelines on the installation of battery storage devices in homes, after receiving a barrage of criticism over proposals that the industry feared would amount to an effective ban on lithium-ion battery storage devices inside homes.
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Standards Australia released a statement on Tuesday afternoon denying it was seeking a ban on lithium-ion storage, noting that any guidelines did not have to be adopted by governments.

But it also revealed that the public discussion on the guidelines would now not commence until April. RenewEconomy understands it had been planned for February. Interestingly, the time for public comment has been extended to nine weeks rather than the full six weeks.
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I wouldn't call crisis over, as "There is no suggestion yet that the guidelines would be modified before their release". Also the not caring about battery chemistry is also problematic, as safer chemistry like Lithium Iron Phosphate isn't going to need the full bunker treatment.

I should be able to get access to the draft standard when it's available.
 
That's unfortunate!It sounds like the power companies thereare paying off some politicians to pass legislationbecause they are concerned about this "hobby"taking off, becoming more popular, and better known about....and costing them some profits!
 
See this pop up everywhere of late... I'm all for it if it genuinely makes it safer but not if it's a case of regulations to create another government-industry
 
I don't get it. Having a gas-powered stove is arguably far more dangerous to have in your house than a giant battery pack. Think about what would happen if you had a gas leak?

Boom...

The worst an li-ion cell can do is burst into flames. It will probably destroy your property, but that's it. . The worst a stove will do is literally kill you because you died in a giant explosion. Yet you aussies seem to be perfectly happy to have people use gas stoves. when was the last time you heard of someone that actually died from a li-ion accident? Almost never, because there is just so much more time to get away even in the event of an absolute worst case scenario
 
I would imagine its both pressure from firefighters who already dislike home solar setups, and a regulations office wanting to put the rubber stamp down early before the Chinese clones of the telsa walls appear for commercial sale.

Now i would imagine it is not intended to fight this hobby, but more the kinds of people that would treat lithium like a lead acid, hooking a car trickle charger to a 3S pack, or stuff like that. now i will say a few members of this hobby do seem to have entered with a limited electrical background, but atleast most of them have caught on early to respect the risks. and ask questions, even if sometimes concerning ones

It would be a blanket covering like how solar systems need 2 isolation switches, one on the roof and one in the panel, if a fire happens they dont want to have to deal with 50KWh of lithium igniting.
 
Worse still these new standards apply to outside battery systems for industrial grid storage. So things like huge Tesla Powerpack cabinet arrays next to substations would also be banned.

Here is an article that show fire testing of Tesla Powerpacks, they all passed no explosions, no huge fire. Yet this wouldn't be considered safe enough.
https://electrek.co/2016/12/19/tesla-fire-powerpack-test-safety/

So yeah, this draft standard would ban all existing battery storage systems, even the industrial rated ones.
 
Yeah, lithium is starting to get a really bad rap. With samsung cell batteries going rogue, ecig batts blowing up, and loads of other failures, it's not looking good :(

It looks to me like the whole AC vs DC thing all over again. It wouldn't surprise me if big oil isn't pushing these claims out to make it look like lithium is far more dangerous than what they really are. We don't hear in the news about ppl being injured from a failing leadacid battery, but it does happen. The fumes from leadacid is worse imho because it's semi-gaseous and can actually "explode".

However, there are newer, safer, cheaper battery techs right around the corner. so, who knows? maybe in a few yrs we'll all be redoing the powerwalls to run on a different chemistry :p
 
APD said:
CUDAcores89 said:
when was the last time you heard of someone that actually died from a li-ion accident?
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Yesterday.

http://bgr.com/2017/03/14/hoverboard-fire-death-harrisburg/

...just sayin'
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Meanwhile, there was a huge gas explosion injuring 33 people and nearly killing one person. The explosion also destroyed several buildings:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3179880/gas-explosion-merseyside-new-ferry/

Oh, but fossil fuels areokay. Its not like it kills people right:

https://qz.com/568450/fossil-fuels-...-wars-murders-and-traffic-accidents-combined/
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...il-fuels-are-far-deadlier-than-nuclear-power/
https://sites.google.com/site/yarra...on-deaths-from-fossil-fuel-based-power-plants
https://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/kharecha_02/
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35568249
http://news.mit.edu/2013/study-air-pollution-causes-200000-early-deaths-each-year-in-the-us-0829
http://www.catf.us/fossil/problems/power_plants/

What about simple things like STAIRS. like the things we walk up and down every day. Surely those don't kill as many people as lithium related fires?
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ll-stairs-brooklyn-building-article-1.2930943
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20170102/flatbush/man-dies-falling-down-stairs-new-years
http://abc7ny.com/news/man-walking-2-dogs-dies-after-falling-down-stairs/1770515/
http://journalstar.com/news/local/9...cle_4b096c94-76e8-5943-a89e-370c05408bbf.html

What about recreational activities like swimming?
https://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

MY point is that life is dangerous. And if we all simply choose to live in our houses all the time and never drive anywhere, never go swimming, never eat or drink and never use a stove then we would never get anything done. Living life itself is a dangerous activity and everything comes with a risk. I really hate how so many states and countries around the world have a "nannyism" mentality. IfIchoose to go skydiving, then I must accept the fact that I could die. And if I cannot accept this, then I should not go skydiving at all. But this should not prevent others from doing the same thing, just because I find it too risky. If I want to take drugs, then that is up to me. but I need to accept the fact it could mess up my brain and destroy my life, but I should have the right to make this choice. And if I cannot make this choice, then I should not do it at all. but this should not prevent others from doing it. Same thing with smoking. Smoking kills millions of people a year but that's okay for some reason. You have the right to smoke if you want to, while accepting the risk you will probably die in your 50s.

I don't understand why Australia is doing this. Couldn't they just charge a higher homeowner insurance on people with powerwalls or something rather than making this idiotic law? Sometimes i'm glad to live in theUS.
 
Well, maybe when/if things get going with this stupid law, that'll be when the glass solid state cells will be available. Then the flammability of Li won't be there anymore and they will be safer than lead-acid cells. Then the knuckle-heads in the big wig seats wont have anything to say then because the risk factor will have gone to 0.

Unless they decide to start saying "You can't use any type of electric storage medium due to the inherit risk of electric shock and possible death that most definitely possibly maybe might happen"

Then they'll be coming by and taking out the electric power lines :p
 
Has anyone seen any updates to this ?
 
I would think the big Tesla batt project is concerning some big playersand this is behind all the fuss. Hard to imagine DIY has much to do with it.

Are there not a lot of used laptop batts with lifepo4?
 
Nope. Mostly LiCo2.
 
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