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LTO-Titanate, recent flood of cells on EBAY
#1
The last time I checked (a few months ago), LTO cells were rare, whether new or used. Today, there are quite a few selections. LTO chemistry (Lithium Titanate Oxide) is exceptional due to its rated number of cycles, typically in the 7,000 range. This is not a typo, common 3.7V Li-NCA/Li-NCR in our beloved 18650 formats, are sometimes rated as 1,000 cycles if cared for and you don't charge above 4.1V per cell. The 3.2V nominal LiFePO4 is sometimes rated at a couple thousand cycles.

Best info I can find says LTO is a 2.4V nominal cell, with 1.8-LVC and a full charge of 2.85V (I just googled a discharge graph, and it appears that there is a long and flat middle, with no usable range under 2.2V, or above 2.6V)

If making a 12V pack, five cells in series (5S) would be 12.0V on the nose...11.0V LVC, and a full charge of 14.25V

The full charge number intrigues me, since a typical car alternator produces 13.8V (2.76V per cell), so charging a "suitcase" pack from your cars electrical system would be a great option. I'm fairly certain if you used only five large cells (none in parallel), you could get by safely with no BMS. The thermal runaway characteristics (fire safety) is about the same as LiFePO4, much better than average...energy density is about half of NMC, so...twice the battery volume required per the same Amp-hours of range.

7,000 cycles...dayum! (some claim 14,000?)

edit: LTO seems to perform well when cold, can go to zero volts with no damage, and are known for high charge and discharge rates (30C is common in ads).
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#2
Wow, nice numbers there. Prices?

only problem is we'd need more packs in series to get 48V Tongue
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#3
http://www.batteryspace.com/Lithium-Tita...ttery.aspx Wrote:Model# | Capacity/Voltage | Max Dis. | Max Chrg | Diameter X Height
0407   | 1.5mAh / 2.4V    | 30C      20C      4mm 7mm
7210   | 6mAh / 2.4V      | 30C      30C      7.2mm 10mm
1010   | 15mAh / 2.4V     | 30C      30C      10mm 10mm
1015   | 30mAh / 2.4V     | 30C      30C      10mm 15mm
1020   | 40mAh / 2.4V     | 40C      20C      10mm 20mm
1030   | 80mAh / 2.4V     | 20C      15C      10mm 30mm
1335   | 200mAh / 2.4V    | 20C      15C      13mm 35mm
1450   | 500mAh / 2.4V    | 30C      10C      14mm 50mm
1650   | 600mAh / 2.4V    | 15C      10C      16mm 50mm
1865   | 1100mAh / 2.4V   | 27.27C   | 5C       18.7mm 65.3mm
1865   | 1350mAh / 2.4V   | 30C      | 5C       18.7mm 65.3mm
LTO 1020 Rechargeable Cell: 2.4V 50 mAh, 2.0A rated 0.12Wh (0.015) Your Price: $7.50
LTO 1450 Rechargeable Cell: 2.4V 500 mAh, 15A rated 1.2Wh (0.15) Your Price: $9.95
LTO 1865 Rechargeable Cell: 2.4V 1100 mAh, 30A rated 2.64Wh (0.33) Your Price: $11.95
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#4
Just found out LTO performs well when cold, can go to zero volts with no damage, and are known for high charge and discharge rates (30C is common in ads), so I just added this to the top post....

Today, the most common cell on ebay is the 11-Ah flat foil pouches, lowest price seems to be $100 plus $20 shipping for 12, $10 each, the brand is Kokam / Altairnano

There is also a pallet containing 100 cells, $6500 plus $280 shipping, $6.80 per cell.

Dimensions are 207mm X 115mm,...8" X 4.5" not counting tabs

3/8"  thick, 13 oz's

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There are also 22-Ah cells, which I thought were just paired 11-Ah cells, but...the drawing shows them as being larger, 207mm X 131mm / 8.2" X 5.2" (plus thicker)

Many of these were packaged and labeled as a 6S / 12V pack. This is odd to me, since 13.8V from a car alternator would only be 2.33V per cell (at 6S), barely reaching the nominal 2.4V, and nowhere near the 2.85V that it can be charged at.

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There are a few Toshiba LTO "SCIB" cells, 20-Ah each inside a metal case. $280 for six ($210 plus $80 shipping), $47 each

dimensions 116mm X 106mm...22mm thick

4.7" X 4.2"....0.9" thick
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#5
Where and how the fuck did you find Lithium Titanate cells?

They are expensive AF, but they have crazy high discharge rates on(100C can be achieved on the power optimized cell), crazy high cycle life(10000+), and can be ultrafastcharged with no stress, at up to 10C, charging in 6-15 mins, and are extremely safe.

They do have energy density equivalent to NiCD though, without all of its drawbacks.
The power of lithium ion is in our hands!
We'll show them what we're made of!
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#6
I have a lot of time on my hands at work, and...scanning ebay for odd stuff is something i do once in a while. Just ordered six of the 11-Ah cells, I guess we'll see soon if anything shows up. I think I was just looking up info on LTO and one of the google links was ebay...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lithium-Titanat...jR&vxp=mtr


https://www.ebay.com/itm/32V-20Ah-LTO-Ti...5x&vxp=mtr
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#7
LTO cells are super interesting, I've been following the technology for some time. But as with any release of a new technology to the market it takes some time.

Earliest reports that I'm aware of date back to ~2008 when Altairnano cells were planned to be used in a car, the Lightning GT, with initial deliveries in 2009. That hasn't happened until now though. However they are still working on it, seems like they had some funding issues and planned to release a manufacturing plan in late 2017: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_GT
Can't find anything on that though so I guess that didn't happen either.

Around the same time Toshiba went public with its Super Charged Ion Battery (SCiB) which was (and maybe still is) used since 2008 for certain e-bikes and since 2011 for e-cars. They have also shown a laptop battery prototype in 2008 but that hasn't happened for real as of now. In 2014 they've installed large scale systems in Japanese wind power projects for testing.

Swiss/German company Leclanché reported that they were building a factory for LTO cells in 2012 and that actually did happen, they are selling their "TiBox" since 2014. A 3.2kWh energy storage system for PV systems at home: http://www.leclanche.com/fileadmin/user_...-11-03.pdf
I love the picture with the happy family with the TiBox sitting in the living room Big Grin
The cells are actually made in Germany, in a small town called Willstätt, at a former BASF factory. According to a report from 2015 they are focussing on large industrial size stationary systems and smaller ones for home use and also on energy storage for ships, but especially not for cars.

GWL Power / EV-Power sells LTO cells in 18650 and pouch formats: https://www.ev-power.eu/LTO-technology/
They only list the 30Ah pouch cell, however I have seen 10Ah and 40Ah in some German shops as well and they seem to come from the same manufacturer.

So, yeah, LTO cells are a real thing and they are interesting. But they are still a niche and public awareness is only rising recently. Only a few forum posts and blog posts can be found, most of them not earlier than 2015/2016. It will probably take some additional time until they have reached the availability and price and choice of formats of todays LiFePo4 cells.
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#8
New member. Long time lto user.
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#9
Can you elaborate? What sizes of LTO's are you using? Did you buy new, or reclaim from something?
What are you using them to do?

Where are you located?
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#10
My first post must have been rejected, as it had information about where to buy.
The recent USA supply is nib old stock  11ah.
There are about 15,000 left in the pipeline.
The best buy is by cutting eBay out of their 10%. ?
Ive seen them listed on es 12pcs for $100 delivered conus.

As I've been using them so long, I know which bms and balance chargers work best with them.
Also testing some of the 2.7v super cap shunt balancers with them. The ones with leds are nice, as you can charge  and recharge until all leds come on at the same time.
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