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LTO Powerwall
#21
Can you share some pictures ?

Can you clarify 2.1V ?
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#22
(05-30-2018, 02:08 PM)vladimir Wrote: i paid them 9 usd/pc , how much did you?
9 usd 30Ah ? can you share where did you bought and if this price was for a minimum quantity?
Regards
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#23
(05-30-2018, 08:12 PM)jesusangel Wrote:
(05-30-2018, 02:08 PM)vladimir Wrote: i paid them 9 usd/pc , how much did you?
9 usd 30Ah ? can you share where did you bought and if this price was for a minimum quantity?
Regards

Hi there LTO fans...

We are also interested in the Yinlong lithium titanate Cells, and investigate internet for more than a year.
Yinlong made several cilindrical lto cells.
LTO66160A - 30Ah their first development
LTO66210x - 55/60Ah  their first development.
LTO66160F - 35Ah their newest development (Yinlong list price around 70usd/pcs)
LTO66160H - 40Ah their newest development (Yinlong list price around 80usd/pcs)

They original made by Yinlong for EV bus, and they have succes with their cells as they bought 5 bus manufacture companies.
That is perfect for us, as they have money for further development of the cells, and they make them by the millions, so there is a lot on the secondary marked, like Alibaba/Aliexpress.
On there official web-site, they advertise that cells can be re-cycled for storage after using in a bus.
Nothing wrong with that as the cycle life is more than 20.000.
The Chinees are really clever people, either they want to serve the world with "green" energy, it cost to much to recycle, or they
want to get rid of their chemical waste legally ... your choice...

One thing is for sure, you will not buy factory new cells..!!

All the sellers on Alibaba are selling either used cells or "new" B grade.
The so called 25Ah cells are used 30Ah cells, mostly re-wraped, price 9usd/ex-work
One year ago  the price for a "new" 30Ah was twice as at the moment.

To be on the save side buy only 40Ah cells, with the original Yinlong wrap and serial number sticker, as you are sure they meet factory specs.
Price around 18-24usdpcs for 500pcs.
Their are honest sellers..!!

Than another important issue... shipment.
Al different kind of industries are all concentrated in separate parts of China.
Most batterie factories/sellers are located near or in Shenzhen on the south border next to Hong Kong.
Lithium cells in general are dangerous goods, and need a MSDS (safety sheet)
This MSDS is a official registered document, and supplied by the MANUFACTURE, and not by A seller.
So if you ask for the MSDS from Kok-power/OSN-power they will send you a fake one.
We noticed with import of our 40Ah cells that they will be shipped from Shenzhen as "power supplies".
According to our local shipper there will be no forwarder/shipper in Shenzhen who will take lithium batteries in their warehouse.
So official shipment have to go via Hong Kong and local shipment will cost you about 250usd extra.

All the goods shipped worldwide have a so called HS-code,  and for custom clearance and original ship documents you need 
the proper HS-code so the shipping company knows what they put in their containers and how to handle the goods in  case of emergency.
Lithium batteries have a bad name after several accidents (Samsung/Tesla) so the shipping company put them on a separate location on their ships. ( it cost you a minimum of 525usd extra fees for handling lithium as we found out later) 

We do business with China for 11 years now, importing electrical parts, and I never had so much work to do to get my goods.

Conclusion, if you buy cells do it the proper way, otherwise you can have a lot of trouble with custom clearance.

(We ordered about 1000kg LTO and buy them on the local marked)

At the moment the best price we get is 18usd/ex-work for 500pcs. "new" 40Ah 66160H Yinlong cells.

I
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#24
I clarify that voltaje is 80% time at 2.1V with fluke, 24s are at 50.4v

I bought it from osn-power the minimum quantity was 5 cells 6 months ago.


Thanks for the information Rookie, my cells are LTO66160A but i know it should be some factory day hidden in the serial number YL14052400208 or 104251F28200124 all my cells were marked with the mah from a test but maybe is a factory test because is a 10% higher than my test from 1.6v to 2.8v.

About the shipment i received them DDP at 9usd/kg i know shipment is around 4usd/kg, insurance 1.3 usd/kg vat 21% in spain around 3usd/kg plus customs dutties (if they pay) 1usd/kg packages always came from UK a famous alex zhang with label UN3481 packaged very bad the terminals always go out of the box and some need to reconstruct them to be able to use it if they bend is almost imposible to fix.

I never received MSDS since i buy batteries almost 10 years, i only got fines that the industry fake the documents and the only solution is to pay the 100 euros and resend it until it pass the customs dutties.


With osn-power i receive them by ups, nice to see the ups guy moving boxes of 20kg, you know when your batteries arrive when you see the truck from long distance like a sport car almost touching the floor.

I add always to the cells the copper connection bars 1usd/pc spacer 0.08usd/pc spring 0.09usd/pc and stainless steel A2 nut 0.25usd/pc i am thinking to move to nylon nuts because they are breaking the conector, if someone found better solution would be nice to know.


I would like to test a new package, how to get the 40 ah at 18 usd new?
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#25
Battery pack is now setup with 24kWh connected (12 packs) and the cross balancing connections seem to be working well with two sets of 3 packs connected in parallel via the DB15 connector boards.

Sorted out the Cisco power supply units (4200W each) and have them each with a boost converter attached and was running 1000W through each unit and getting around 24A charge at 77V and have since wound them back to around 750W each while I am manually switching them on/off under test. Pack is currently at 78.6V with 18.4A of sunlight going into them :-)

Cell max 2.45V Cell min 2.34V (pack no 7) - no active balancing and not cross balanced yet, just connected, so will re-test in 24hrs and measure the differences.
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#26
Just measured the pack differences and they are now within 20mV of each other with only one of the cell points now showing a 20mV difference between the highest cell pair and the lowest cell pair. These are still cross balancing with 36mA and will take another 36 hours to balance to within a few mV but at this point it is irrelevant in relation to the basic operation as I will still have a buffer of well over 300mV between operational max and operational min so 20mV is nothing bother about. Well happy to go from 110mV out of balance to 20mV with no external balancer and just pack averaging after plugging in and that was with just 3 packs.



There are a few big downsides to my setup with the first being the volume of cables and soldering needed, but I am also using this as a general experiment for a few other projects for the future. So far I have used around 800m of cable for example and still not finished !
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#27
800m of cable? is that all? I think you could easily to 1500m Tongue
Proceed with caution. Knowledge is Power! Literally! Cool 
Knowledge is Power; Absolute Knowledge is Absolutely Shocking!
Certified 18650 Cell Reclamation Technician

Please come join in general chit-chat and randomness at Discord Chat (channels: general, 3d-printing, linux&coding, 18650, humor, ...)
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#28
Will post some pictures. At one point I thought they started to look like props from a robot in a very bad 1960's sci-fi movie.

3 Pack cross connection, excluding external balance input wiring


24kWh of packs connected, 2 x 3 pack cross balance connections (rest still to do) with 2000W charge input.



Output has 2 x 3kVA UPS units attached, one powered on with my computers and the other for testing with the vaccume cleaner, toaster, heater, kettle, etc. as test loads. Still need to repair two of the UPS units.
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#29
7 Pack cross balancing connector... now an 8 pack as I have added another unit ahead of converting to 48V.
That is the first one complete and the second one has 5 units done with 3 left to add and have run out of connectors....

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#30
hahah, looks like a networking distribution center Tongue
Proceed with caution. Knowledge is Power! Literally! Cool 
Knowledge is Power; Absolute Knowledge is Absolutely Shocking!
Certified 18650 Cell Reclamation Technician

Please come join in general chit-chat and randomness at Discord Chat (channels: general, 3d-printing, linux&coding, 18650, humor, ...)
(this chat is not directly affiliated with SecondLifeStorage; VALID email req'd)
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