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Green Sony cells just suck
#21
OK guys here it is.

I have all the cells (66) of them entered into a spreadsheet. Nothing fancy like my others so no formulas to muck up the works with different sheet products.You should be able to download it and check out the Numbers. As you will see we have a good range to work with.

I have available these chargers which charge accordingly:

1. A CC/CV Buck hooked up to a 4 cell holder. Obviously adjustable to whatever I want.
2. A TP4056 4 Cell setup. Again obvious as to charging rate 1A.

3. OPUS BT-C3100 V2.2  200mA, 300mA, 500mA, 700mA, and 1000mA.
4. Nitecore                     300mA to 3000mA adjustable in 100mA increments.
5. Foxnovo 4S                500mA or 1000mA
6. LiitoKala Lii500           300mA, 500mA, 700mA, and 1000mA.
7. Icharger X6              ( Can be put into service if needed. )
8. XTAR Dragon              500mA 1000mA and 1 slot I think can do 2000mA

Looking at the sheet let me know your recommendations on what to charge these cells at and what procedure to follow for the best results. Select 4 of each within a voltage range. Once these cells reach proper V they will be capacity tested on a tester of your choice as long its one I got. Big Grin

Then for experimental purposes I will charge similar cells of the first choice at 500mA  and test them over at least 8 cycles. We can add more test cycles to the sheet of course.

So there it is we shall see how much the "green" Sonys suck!

Wolf
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Attached Files
.xlsx   Sony Green.xlsx (Size: 14.68 KB / Downloads: 36)
If 18 X 650 = 2200+mAh then we have power! 
May all your Cells have an IR of 75mΩ or less Smile
Last count as of 8/7/2019
Total Number of Cells Recorded and processed                 6149
Total Cells required for PowIRwall                                   2856
Total Cells ≥2200mAh, ≥80%, ≥35mΩ, ≤75mΩ, ≥4.12V   2760
For Info Google Drive
Not your average Wolf       
            Cool
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#22
(01-27-2019, 01:52 AM)Wolf Wrote: 1. A CC/CV Buck hooked up to a 4 cell holder. Obviously adjustable to whatever I want.
[...]
let me know your recommendations on what to charge these cells at and what procedure to follow for the best results.

my choice would be a set of lowest voltage to put on the CC/CV.  since its going to be a 1s4p, you can set the CV to be 4.20V, and the CC should be set to ... 0.2A ... yep its going to take a while.  NB maintain vigilence for charging failures on untested cells.

me, Ive built a box I can take in the car and out with me, so that I can keep an eye on this type of charge, AND Id rather car burnt down (unlikely..) than the house.


(01-27-2019, 01:52 AM)Wolf Wrote: [...]
So there it is we shall see how much the "green" Sonys suck!

um .. if my electric skateboard wont kill them then they are ok.

but I still enjoy watching you do this ... heh.
--    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    --
all systems nominal... rock on.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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#23
(01-27-2019, 02:01 AM)DCkiwi Wrote:
(01-27-2019, 01:52 AM)Wolf Wrote: 1. A CC/CV Buck hooked up to a 4 cell holder. Obviously adjustable to whatever I want.
[...]
let me know your recommendations on what to charge these cells at and what procedure to follow for the best results.

my choice would be a set of lowest voltage to put on the CC/CV.  since its going to be a 1s4p, you can set the CV to be 4.20V, and the CC should be set to ... 0.2A ... yep its going to take a while.  NB maintain vigilence for charging failures on untested cells

So you would set the CV to 4.20 right away not start slow like 1.5 V and work up?
.2A would be 50mA per cell I got that.


Wolf
If 18 X 650 = 2200+mAh then we have power! 
May all your Cells have an IR of 75mΩ or less Smile
Last count as of 8/7/2019
Total Number of Cells Recorded and processed                 6149
Total Cells required for PowIRwall                                   2856
Total Cells ≥2200mAh, ≥80%, ≥35mΩ, ≤75mΩ, ≥4.12V   2760
For Info Google Drive
Not your average Wolf       
            Cool
Reply
#24
(01-27-2019, 02:15 AM)Wolf Wrote:
(01-27-2019, 02:01 AM)DCkiwi Wrote: my choice would be a set of lowest voltage to put on the CC/CV.  since its going to be a 1s4p, you can set the CV to be 4.20V, and the CC should be set to ... 0.2A ... yep its going to take a while.  NB maintain vigilence for charging failures on untested cells

So you would set the CV to 4.20 right away not start slow like 1.5 V and work up?

## gosh, like the fifth post in the last week that has dissappeared on me ... so to rewrite *ugh* ...

yeah, just go for 4.20V.  this is only because you are charging in 1s config.  there is much danger of charging to 4.2V / cell on a 2s/3s/4s/etc config, as you will get one set ending up well beyond that limit.

you may wish to set it to like 3.3V or something so that they can have a 'rest' when they get there.  then you can remove any obvious self dischargers (bin/toss), and also any that get warm at all.  These can be put aside and odds are their chemistry will settle, and they might test up well in the end.

this is precisely the methodology that I use to precharge 160 cells at a time ... : )
BlueSwordM and Wolf like this post
--    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    --
all systems nominal... rock on.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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#25
I look forward to your results.  Once the cells are above 3V you should charge at 1A since that is close to the standard used in this community.

If you have success then I can list all my unopened packs of green Sony cells in the for sale section and link to this thread for your results. Smile.  So far I have about 30 unopened Dell packs with green Sonys and still a lot more to sort through
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#26
Jim1

OK I will put that procedure into the mix with a selection of different V batteries, charge to 3.3 at 50mA then charge to 4.2 at 1A.

I will capacity test at 500mA on the Foxnovo as it seems to be the most accurate if not slightly low by a percent or 2. Smile

Right now I am charging these cells according to the sheet.
The XTAR 500mA charged cells are now being capacity tested.
The CC/CV is still charging at 50mA per cell.


On the other hand I was thinking this test was to determine the proper procedure to revive these sony cells and to see if they then stand the test of time.
Or if just pumping them into a charger and charge at whatever gives you the same results as caressing them gently like a baby.

We will know soon enough.

Wolf
jm1 likes this post
If 18 X 650 = 2200+mAh then we have power! 
May all your Cells have an IR of 75mΩ or less Smile
Last count as of 8/7/2019
Total Number of Cells Recorded and processed                 6149
Total Cells required for PowIRwall                                   2856
Total Cells ≥2200mAh, ≥80%, ≥35mΩ, ≤75mΩ, ≥4.12V   2760
For Info Google Drive
Not your average Wolf       
            Cool
Reply
#27
(01-27-2019, 03:15 PM)jm1 Wrote: I look forward to your results.  Once the cells are above 3V you should charge at 1A since that is close to the standard used in this community.


No.  You are wrong.

one should follow the manufacturers advice and pre/charge according to THEIR specs.  EG my cells are all very old, very low spec cells.  they werent EVER rated for a 1A charge.  EVER.  even when new.

this community isnt always right.  in fact, this community -- as super fantastic as it is -- generally tosses cells with <3V initial voltage.  so ... this community actually knows very little about cell recovery from that state.

the point here is to see if ALL the green sony cells in the world suck (apart from my perfectly working esk8 batt of 120 of them) like all of yours supposedly do.  it is NOT to try and destroy all the cells testing so they end up like yours and your confirmation bias is thereby rewarded.  egad man.

this is 'simple' chemistry in action.  its not rocket science, or magic.  but if we don't try to understand it, it may as well be.
--    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    --
all systems nominal... rock on.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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#28
I know I would try and rescue the low IR ones. I have quite a few that never survived, but the sub 95IR ones are quite good. (time will tell).
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#29
(01-27-2019, 06:31 PM)DCkiwi Wrote:
(01-27-2019, 03:15 PM)jm1 Wrote: I look forward to your results.  Once the cells are above 3V you should charge at 1A since that is close to the standard used in this community.


No.  You are wrong.

one should follow the manufacturers advice and pre/charge according to THEIR specs.  EG my cells are all very old, very low spec cells.  they werent EVER rated for a 1A charge.  EVER.  even when new.

this community isnt always right.  in fact, this community -- as super fantastic as it is --  generally tosses cells with <3V initial voltage.  so ... this community actually knows very little about cell recovery from that state.

the point here is to see if ALL the green sony cells in the world suck (apart from my perfectly working esk8 batt of 120 of them) like all of yours supposedly do.  it is NOT to try and destroy all the cells testing so they end up like yours and your confirmation bias is thereby rewarded.  egad man.

this is 'simple' chemistry in action.  its not rocket science, or magic.  but if we don't try to understand it, it may as well be.
lol, and that my friend is why the green sony's dont work for me!  I use cells at 1A charge and discharge, if they cant do that then they are not suitable for my use.  So its very possible since I treated the green sony's as all my other 1000's of cells, at 1A, is the reason they dont work for me.  If you can treat the cells like babies then the green sonys are for you.
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#30
(01-28-2019, 12:03 AM)jm1 Wrote: lol, and that my friend is why the green sony's dont work for me!  I use cells at 1A charge and discharge, if they cant do that then they are not suitable for my use.  So its very possible since I treated the green sony's as all my other 1000's of cells, at 1A, is the reason they dont work for me.

mmmmm, maybe.  I get INSANELY old batteries to scrape here.  EG not unusual to get one with a pot-it note stuck to it with a name and 'broken' written on it with a date ... of 2013.  Im not kidding!  so there might be another reason if your cells are fresher than mine ...

have you checked out the forums excellent Cell Database?  it is simply amazing.  best on the planet, i reckon.

apart from older cells being not very super ... the whole recovery from low V thing is a HUGE issue ... I liken it to a giant iceberg ... and all of us on the titanic just hoping it isnt that big under the waterline ... heh.  it sure cost me hundreds of cells ... and that was the pleasant part ---> the worst is all the cells I found later that I thought were great, but now werent.  so lucky they werent all soldered in packs.  that would have ... been stressful!
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all systems nominal... rock on.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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