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Inverter/UPS/Hybrid standby power use
#11
(11-12-2019, 11:44 AM)Redpacket Wrote: Your toroidal transformer would need 2x primary windings to work the same as the APC's original one.
This is due to the APC's circuit design which will have two halfs.
Check the APC circuit, it will join the two primary windings in series, with the centre tap connected to battery +ve.

Maybe try to find the right transformer with 2x primary + 1x secondary.

You might be able to add you own new 2x primary windings as not too many turns are needed, maybe only approx 10.
To be sure, try to (carefully!) measure the turns ratio of the APC original transformer, eg from one primary to the secondary.

Note that toroidal transformers saturate much more easily than the E-I core type because there is less air gap.
Hi, Redpacket, i do not understand very well about eletronic,  let explain my situation; i have some 28v 230v toroidal transformers. Reading the posts i tought if possible to use them to low the losses on APC UPS.  And make some tests. But i'm not sure how to use them. Thank you so mutch.
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#12
(08-28-2018, 01:04 AM)jdeadman Wrote: I love the grid charging f a UPS but I also hate the Low Load losses.  One thing I have noticed is that once you hit that magic 75W of Load the losses diminish greatly.  So if you have a constant load of at least 50W the APC will be just fine but when zero usage it sucks.  For my setup if I cannot find a good Low Loss UPS I will be forced to go the route of an inverter and separate charging system

Before solar, I had a pair of APC 3000 towers and 9 APC 1500s around the house - for last 15-20yrs because of power company surges / outages have damage computer equipment in the past. I'm have several servers and so it was to incorporate/rely on UPSs in my life experience.

Since solar, I have consolidated to a pair of APC 3000 towers and run a set of 120v plugs thru the house so that the individual APC 1500s are no longer needed.  Because of the consolidation, the remaining APCs have a steady load all the time...

So you're saying that since I have load all the time, I have 'inadvertently' negated the idle power burn issue?   That sounds great.  And this might be a solution for others...  e.g. consolidate/arrange your solar project so you're UPS(s) have constant load? Mine is specifically an APC type of UPS.
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#13
you will always have more energy used from the batteries than is going our the AC lines. it's just the conversion losses. It's lower once you hit a threshold but never will be zero. Generally with my APC I was 1.5Amp @28V zero load (42W) to at 50% load (500W) the Batteries would pull about 520W so 20 Watts of Loss instead of the 42W of zero load. Now that i have more time with a MPPSolar LV2424 inverter I can bank on 1kWh of losses per day as long as I have load on in the inverter.
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#14
1kwh per day is nothing. I run 7+kwh per day just in idle load Smile Then another easy 4-5 in conversion losses...
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#15
7!!!!!!! OUCH But that is the price we pay for generating that amount of power. I'm only running a 2.4kw single phase inverter. Way different in component count to your 3 phase Beast mode inverter
******Hi My name is Jason and I have SOCD (Solar Obsessive Compulsive Disorder)*******
Current Powerwall - 1400 Cells 7s200p (modular 40p packs) ~ 12kWh of storage     4x 315W Canadian Solar Panels

Working on the next 7s40p packs     ~2.5kWh

Waiting on 2000 Cells of unused Sony vt4 (2000mah 30A) ~ 15kWh      hehehehehe  More Power
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#16
The victron charger/inverters suck like 10watts. I bought mine just for that.
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#17
(11-12-2019, 03:24 PM)OffGridInTheCity Wrote:
(08-28-2018, 01:04 AM)jdeadman Wrote: I love the grid charging f a UPS but I also hate the Low Load losses.  One thing I have noticed is that once you hit that magic 75W of Load the losses diminish greatly.  So if you have a constant load of at least 50W the APC will be just fine but when zero usage it sucks.  For my setup if I cannot find a good Low Loss UPS I will be forced to go the route of an inverter and separate charging system

Before solar, I had a pair of APC 3000 towers and 9 APC 1500s around the house - for last 15-20yrs because of power company surges / outages have damage computer equipment in the past.  I'm have several servers and so it was to incorporate/rely on UPSs in my life experience. 

Since solar, I have consolidated to a pair of APC 3000 towers and run a set of 120v plugs thru the house so that the individual APC 1500s are no longer needed.   Because of the consolidation, the remaining APCs have a steady load all the time...

So you're saying that since I have load all the time, I have 'inadvertently' negated the idle power burn issue?   That sounds great.  And this might be a solution for others...  e.g. consolidate/arrange your solar project so you're UPS(s) have constant load?    Mine is specifically an APC type of UPS.
Hi i'm wondering if possible charge the 96v battery bank  directly from 3 solar pannels (VPM 37.83) with no carge controller. (37.83x3=113.49/8=14.18.) The razion of my question is; i need to use one UPS that works from 92dc aup to 120dc. This Ups is just for a  few hours a week. Thank you.
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#18
It's not advised as Charge controllers can slow the current when the batteries get full vmp is not the VOpen Curcuit that can be much higher and therefore overcharge your batteries
******Hi My name is Jason and I have SOCD (Solar Obsessive Compulsive Disorder)*******
Current Powerwall - 1400 Cells 7s200p (modular 40p packs) ~ 12kWh of storage     4x 315W Canadian Solar Panels

Working on the next 7s40p packs     ~2.5kWh

Waiting on 2000 Cells of unused Sony vt4 (2000mah 30A) ~ 15kWh      hehehehehe  More Power
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#19
(12-09-2019, 06:20 PM)NJM Wrote: Hi i'm wondering if possible charge the 96v battery bank  directly from 3 solar pannels (VPM 37.83) with no carge controller. (37.83x3=113.49/8=14.18.) The razion of my question is; i need to use one UPS that works from 92dc aup to 120dc. This Ups is just for a  few hours a week. Thank you.

Quick answer: No.

Longer answer: Not really. You "could" directly connect, but you will be highly inefficient of the power delivery. Also the solar panel output will equalize to the voltage of the batteries after awhile, so the batteries won't get fully charged. Also, during the night time, the solar panels will actually drain the batteries (as the solar cells are actually a type of LED, infrared tho). And if you put diodes in place, this drops the effective output of the panels.
Using a charge controller, it regulated the voltage output to be just above the battery voltage so it's always pushing into the batteries until they are full. And, as jdeadman states, the charge controller also regulates the amps delivery.

Charge controllers, especially MPPT, will try to find the best combination of voltage and amps pulling from the panels to give the most watts to the batteries.

A really basic MPPT charge controller can be had for <$30USD. MPPT would be preferred over PWM as it's more efficient. But even PWM would be better than direct connection.
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