batrium bms or maybe orion?

Jimbob01

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Jan 26, 2018
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hi guys im james...off grid 23 yrs ...not that up on everything but learning..... :)
im thinking do i needbatrium bms? or maybe orion?
i have a barge off grid.
i think i must have...2 systems 1 at 24 and 1 at 48volt....unfortunatly
i have 24 valence u27 12 xp to use...
i have the software to ballance and check everything but i can only do a battery at a time...
ive noticed daromer used a fair few of these in a powerwall
id like to monitor the whole bank.... as a whole....was looking at this batrium system

issue is i have a 24v house bank and all 24 v system in place with 24v whispergen charger 3kw solar outback 3024inverter
but.....
im removing the main engine and installing a series wound pair of motors that have to run at 48v
so what would you guys do...
2 systems....
will a batrium be a good option??
would i need 2? :huh:
its tricky cos i dont need to move the boat so much...48v motors
am a bit stuck to know which routeto takereally?
any opinions would be most welcome
 
I would suggest 2 systems.
Orion are pretty much more costly.

Is it cheaper to use DC/DC to go from 24 to 48V instead?
 
If it's a barge it'll be capable of being towed fully loaded - ask yourself could you manage without any means of propulsion.
 
thanks for the replys..
its a boat that needs its own propulsion....
.i need 10kw of power at 48v to power the motors...
its a fair bit of juice...
do dc dc converters that big exist?


so the batrium is made up of as many long mons as you have parralel packs of cells to monitor... then the watchmon is the master brain which reads them and you can then view via pc?...
ive 24 valence packs so i guess i would have to open them all and have 4 longmons a pack?
 
Jimbob01 said:
do dc dc converters that big exist?

Yes, but one very large 48 to 24 converter isnt wise, a number of smaller ones, and split the loads would be cheaper and offer redundancy

what's yourbiggest single 24v load device ?
 
If you want to go the route i did you need to open them and remove the old bms and install your new BMS. If its Batrium then you have my videos to follow and you can even use the same 3d print to hold the longmons or if you strap them in place like i did on the first ones.
You need to open em all yes but you dont need 4 longmons per pack. You can do as i did. I have 4 longmons per 3 valence cells. You can have even more of course just beware of the balancing capacity.

Since you have gear for 24v allready you are a bit stuck. Perhaps swap out and run 48v as main bank and DC/DC 48->24V as Sean said might be better?

You can get a DC/DC converter in any size if thats what you ask for. 10kW is nothing but yeah 10kW at 24V is alot of current...
 
Jimbob01 said:
thanks for the replys..
its a boat that needs its own propulsion....
.i need 10kw of power at 48v to power the motors...
its a fair bit of juice...
do dc dc converters that big exist?


so the batrium is made up of as many long mons as you have parralel packs of cells to monitor... then the watchmon is the master brain which reads them and you can then view via pc?...
ive 24 valence packs so i guess i would have to open them all and have 4 longmons a pack


That sounds like over complicating a system, simply because you think you need to keep your existing equipment.
You'll never regret moving to a 48v system.
 
my inverter is a 3024 outback so thats the main issue...also i have a 24v whispergen sterling engine generator that heats the place while supplying 1kw continuous...very handy in the winter when pv is not good...
guess i may be able to step it up to 48v...
yes sean i think you are probably right..i wouldnt regret the move to 48...
i have 12v running on step down ...just led lights fridge pumps and stuff..
the mppts will like it..
maybe i should build a whole new system...again ?...
maybe i need more batteries...
hey maybe im getting hooked on this free energy sunpower stuff...?
 
:)

Before you do anything think it through a bit. We dont know all the gear you got. Draw it up and see and calculate costs doing all the different things.
 
back to the batrium....1 would be nice...daromer you seem to have had a similar set up.. have the batrium moved on since you making those videos?
what batrium set up would you recommend on 24 valence wired as48v i guess its a 6p of 4s?
thanks for your input guys much appreciated
james


yes daromer good advice...
ive been chewing it over a while now though....
thinking of all the pros and cons...
really my loads mostly can be inverted to 240v ac
i do have a few 48v inverters kicking about i was thinking of using in my workshop...maybe ill just bite the bullet and go all out 48 and step up my whispergen somehow.... actually its the simplest option which will probably be the easiest to manage...been looking at the batrium for some time now...l
 
Batrium i got many of. For my main powerwall 2 systems. One per bank. Its curently how it should be done when you have different systems if you ask me.

48V Life is 16s system. Either you have 16 longmons or you use 32. Using 16 then you have a big battery bank per longmon. Its doable but you lack some balancing capability for it.

In each battery you have 4s. So you need 4 of those in series to reach 48v.

Its better to use DC power directly if you have DC powered sources. There is no need going DC - AC - DC.. Not unless you have to. An inverter wastes alot of energy in idle mode including losses converting.

Perhaps having 48VDC main battery bank. THen you step down to desired voltages. You can even have a smaller 12 or 24 battery bank that you charge from the big bank.
Its often easier to have the main bank where you have the highest load.
It can be wise to have a 2nd system to your important stuff like emergency lights and radio. it does not have to be big but big enough so you can work on the big system if something happens!
 
Given the gear you've got, my pick would be to keep some or most of the 24V system running but build a new 48V system for the new motors.
At 10kW, sounds like they will draw vary large amounts of power when running - you'd need huge packs to run them for eg > 1hr.
10kW at 48V is about 208A running current (ignoring losses).... 1 hr = say min 250Ahr capacity @48V needed!
How long would you run them for?

You can always migrate the rest of your gear to 48V over time.
 
Redpacket said:
Given the gear you've got, my pick would be to keep some or most of the 24V system running but build a new 48V system for the new motors.
At 10kW, sounds like they will draw vary large amounts of power when running - you'd need huge packs to run them for eg > 1hr.
10kW at 48V is about 208A running current (ignoring losses).... 1 hr = say min 250Ahr capacity @48V needed!
How long would you run them for?

You can always migrate the rest of your gear to 48V over time.

thanks for ur thoughts guys...
redpacket...i could keep the 24 v main system and run a 48v alongside...
this was my first thought... id then need 2 batrium bmss and longmons etc per system...
ive got 41 kw of storage in the valence packs so my ideal 3hr max power run time for the 2 x 5kw motors should be ok
ive a 600amp curtis that should be ok with some cooling via old heat exchanger system.
i have all electric cooking etc as i want to be gas free...
so all that is 240v inv loads..
i also have a 15kw back up gene which puts a few hundred amps back in to the bats when running
3kw of solar on the roof so in the summer crusing on half power should be significantly extended...
the point i had gotten to i guess was how i can monitor everything as simply as poss...
im going to make a chart of all my stuff and try to work out if i can warrant a full 48v system as this seems the simplest to monitor then maybe just have a couple (48-24) (24-12) step downs ....hopefullyi can get like 100 amp ones...
then i could set up a batrium or something :s to monitor the whole bank...
the whole system has just evolved as funds have allowed over the last 15yrs or so....
i did hesitate for ages b4 going 12v yrs ago.... then went 24..... now maybe 48... :shy:
 
It would be far better to run your motors at a much higher voltage (think electric car!)

10KW @ 48V is over 200 amps. You would need at least some 0/4 copper wire to handle that - maybe more if there is distance involved. Plus expensive circuit breakers, etc for safety. Lots of losses even at 48V.. get it up over 100v
Those motors may draw even more at startup, etc.. could be a very large surge

Charge the HV system with an electric car charger and keep the 24V system for the house. Can convert the HV to 24v as well to supplement the house loads
Buy a crashed car battery.. they contain most everything you need (bms). Or whole car.. gut the motor, etc

Maybe an alternative idea is to use the excess power from that whispergen to generate hydrogen and then burn it in an old cheap 2 stroke engine to move you around. Store it in tanks. Use excess solar in summer to generate too. Burn it in the whispergen in winter for heat
You can buy efficient PEM electrolyzers from china for ~$500
Check out this guy's videos -
 
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