Airco split unit

100kwh-hunter

100kwh-hunter

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Heye Gents & Galls.
I have a split airco (inside and outside unit).
I disconnected it in end 2012!
Put them in the wood storage shed, and left it over there.
Know i don't know anything about this technology.

But i think, i just going to connect it, connect a vacuum pump to it, to get all the air out.
Fill it up with the right type of gas(maybe some oil?)
And it will work again??
Somehow i don't think so.

What are your thoughts or idea or experience on this type of airco.
Its a double compressor airco? two gasses or for extra pressure?

image_huvuzd.jpg


The valve i am worried about, maybe they are dried out, inside?

image_oaspkm.jpg


When i cut the pipes, after the gas was relieved, i closed them by cutting extra

image_hzulqe.jpg


The same with the inside unit.

image_sqrciv.jpg


Thanks in advance
 
First check the type ofrefrigerant it needs, if it is r22 then it is for recycling...
Any later refrigerant ( r410, r134a, .. ) you must contact a certified installer to connect pipes, testfor leaks and charge with refrigerant.


If the pipes where closed to the air, the van chould be ok.

There is only one compressor (as far a i can see on the picture), the other black thing on the side of it is a liquid seperator (overheater).
It is possible there are 2 or more compressors in a unit like this, but then there would be more connections for indoor units, and there is only one on yours, so...
 
Wim thank you for your reply,
The refrigerant it wants, i found on a tag:
high pressure r-410a refrigerant
????operating pressure.
r-410a refrigerant
vg74 compressor oil.

I am not sure that the pipes where 100% closed, it gets hot in the shed50c so gas/air expands, and you had that winter also - 25c.
So, i don't know, but i can tell for sure that there is no more pressure at this timeand there is still some clear oil in the system.

With the first picture shows,that is all there is, so one compressor and the other is a liquid separator.
I only have one indoor unit.

I probably can get a bottle of the r-410a gas, or sealed tubes.
I can test myself if the system is air closed, i only need a number in psi or bar (my strongest compressor can reach max 24 bar)
I think: 1 to 4 bars somewhere? for 48 hours? would be enough with NO drop, for test?

After testing and installing myself i will call a certified installer, just to avoid environmental issues and possible health issues.

How do I proceed? can i test the airco in a way before there is gas in it? of course i don't expect cold air out of it without gas.
I would like to make a test setup in the shed before i place that thing on the roof and drill some holes for the inside unit.
And how can i test if the valves are still in good order?

Thanks again and in advance for your answers, best.
 
r410 is good for a few years ... (untill2022 if i am not mistaken)
Don'tdo anything with the oil, if the unit has not leaked some, it should be fine.

You mayinstall the piping, and kabels yourself... but the connections, preparing and filling of the unit can only be done by a certified installer.
you can not own or handle refrigirant legal yourself.

That been sayd, i can explain how to prepare en fill your unit....

First re-connect the pipes, use only hard solder (not tin or so, only brass or silver rods) do not try to remake the fittings that are on the vans, the flares on them are made with special tools. when connected, use nitrogen (nothing else)to set the unit under pressure, and test for leaks with some soapy liquid(check for bubbles) do not use air from a compressor.
The max pressure chould be noted on the specs ( 10-15 Bar is suffient )
Then evacuate the air and nitrogen (and any left over refrigerant)out of the unit by use of a vacuumpump (bit tricky to find one) ,leave the pump pumping for several houres (to get moisture out the system).
Once vacuum, close all vans and leave it, if the vacuum is still present after a few hours, the system is leakfree and can be filled with refrigerant.


For this you need nothing special, only a scale (10gr precision)... on the unit schould be marked how much refrigerant is in the system, you have to add some to compensate for the lengt of the piping ( this info you can find in the manual or online, something like 10gr/mtr).
Take the wieght of the bottle r410 (or reset the scale to zero with the bottle on it) and connect the bottle to the liquid side of the unit (small tube), then open the van of the bottle and the van of the unit and let the vacuum inthe system suck the refrigirant in the system until the marked weight(+ added weighttubing) is out of the bottle.

if the refrigerant is not flowing anymore before the needed weight is reached, you can always finish the charge when the unit is running by the suction side of the unit (bigger line).

Never, in the fill-up fase, after you have put a vacuum on the system, there can be air allowed back in to the unit, ( you will see, that is the difficult part..) or you have to restart with a new vacuum.

After all that, you can start up the unit and enjoy the cold (or heat in your case, it is a reversible unit) ;)

When you are done reading this, you probablyaggree it is best to find a licenced installer, he will do this with his eyes closed. :sleepy:

Good luck,
 
Heat????, i will read this one again tomorrow.
O yes, a remote, can remember where i left that thing.
 
Despite the fact it can be done by myself, i will get myself a installer.

I have the solder and a vacuum pump.(from the melting oven)
Now i have to get the proper connections, the nitrogen ect.
This adventure will take to much time/cost and fiddling around with some expensive equipment.

I will call a company

Remote is found.

Thanks
 
Hi Hunter

I'm not sure about in the Netherlands but in the UK only holders of an Fgas certificate can work on the refrigerant side.

Over here its a massive no no to let any refrigerant escape to atmosphere. A 1 kg release of R-410A is equivalent
to GWP ( global warming potential) 2088 kg of CO2, a 1 kg release of R-404A is equivalent to 3922 kg of CO2.

In January 2020 there will be a ban on using virgin HFCs to service refrigeration equipment that uses a refrigerant with a GWP above 2500. I believe medium-high GWP HFCs like R-134a and R-410A are also on a planed phase out over the next few years.
 
I think more like "Holy Sh.t!" ;)
 
If you didn't store it properly and just released the gas then get someone to flare the pipes again and gas it up. You can do the basic install with wiring and mounting which would save on the money.

In the future, you can turn the compressor on by leaving it on cold and shut the valve and have all the gas collect back in the outside unit. It's not going to evacuate all the lines completely but most of it will be in the compressor and not the pipes. Then when you install it you hook the pipes up and crack one side open until all the air is evacuated. No vacuum needed, but will have some loss of gas. Probably a few youtubes out there on how to do it.
 
mike said:
chuckp said:
Over here its a massive no no to let any refrigerant escape to atmosphere.
Click to expand...

In the US, that's something like a $37,500 fine (if I recall correctly) and there is a bounty reward if you rat your neighbors out.
Click to expand...

The UK government department responsible for administering the F-gas regulations, DEFRA (Department for Environment Food & Rural Affairs) is implementing a multi tier fine system based on the severity of the break in regulation.

Four groups of penalty ranging in scale from 1,000 to 200,000 based on the seriousness of the infringement.

The maximum fine of 200,000 applied to offences such as the intentional release of F-gases to atmosphere, breaches of the quota limits for placing HFCs on the market, and failure to comply with an enforcement notice.

Fines of up to 100,000 for offences where the impacts are likely to be less severe, but emissions of F-gases are still likely. This would include contravening F-gas requirements and procedures for minimising emissions or leakage of F-gases and recovering F-gases from equipment. It would also be levied on non-F-gas certified people handling F-gases or on those not fulfilling the requirements to register for and verify quota usage.

A maximum fine of 50,000 applied to breaches including failing to correctly label F-gases or products containing them; failing to comply with the requirements for declarations of conformity for importing products containing F-gases; and failing to keep records of F-gases used in equipment or F-gas sales.

Minor breaches such as not reporting within the prescribed deadline on F-gas production, import, export, destruction and feedstock usage carry a maximum fine of 10,000.
 
@Korishan and Mike. :blush:Sorry

@chuckp.
So it would be better to let this airco go, to avoid trouble?
or will the system be good for yeaaaaars to come?
I suspect that they will keep addresses of people who bought/refill them?
And what if I want to get rid of it?(I suspect they will vacuum it, against a cheap price?)
Or its a leaker?

With best regards,
 
100kwh-hunter said:
@Korishan and Mike. :blush:Sorry

@chuckp.
So it would be better to let this airco go, to avoid trouble?
or will the system be good for yeaaaaars to come?
I suspect that they will keep addresses of people who bought/refill them?
And what if I want to get rid of it?(I suspect they will vacuum it, against a cheap price?)
Or its a leaker?

With best regards,
Click to expand...


You can service/fill it yourself. You just can't let freon escape. The problem becomes if you install/fill it and it doesn't work, now you have to call someone out to empty it so you can get rid of it. I just went through this with my truck. I thought I had the leaking AC fixed so I filled it, but ended up needing a new compressor as well, so I had to pay the garage to evacuate the lines so I could replace the compressor. It was only $20 but assume a house call from an HVAC tech will be a bit more expensive...
 
mike said:
I had to pay the garage to evacuate the lines so I could replace the compressor. It was only $20 but assume a house call from an HVAC tech will be a bit more expensive...
Click to expand...

At Harbor Freight they have an A/C evacuation pump. I think they have two models. Fairly inexpensive (for what it does) and pretty reliable. My uncle has one and has used it several times so far. The advantages is that it also works for non-A/C systems as well. So if you find you need to pull a vacuum on something else, you can do it.

Also, if you find that there is a leak, you can vacuum it back down before you loose very much freon.

https://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-61245.html
$95. You can probably get it for 20% or 25% off if you catch it during their mark down sales and use the coupon. That's what my uncle did.
 
100kwh-hunter said:
So it would be better to let this airco go, to avoid trouble?
or will the system be good for yeaaaaars to come?
I suspect that they will keep addresses of people who bought/refill them?
And what if I want to get rid of it?(I suspect they will vacuum it, against a cheap price?)
Or its a leaker?

With best regards,
Click to expand...

I'm not sure of your regulations and sales restrictions but I would assume they aren't to dissimilar from ours.
If you can get the refrigerant and you are or know someone who is able to recharge it, it's probably worth a shot. You will need to vac it down before filling, leave it on vacuum for awhile before filling you'll soon see if it's a leaker or not.

mike said:
You can service/fill it yourself. You just can't let freon escape. The problem becomes if you install/fill it and it doesn't work, now you have to call someone out to empty it so you can get rid of it. I just went through this with my truck. I thought I had the leaking AC fixed so I filled it, but ended up needing a new compressor as well, so I had to pay the garage to evacuate the lines so I could replace the compressor. It was only $20 but assume a house call from an HVAC tech will be a bit more expensive...
Click to expand...

In the UK anyone (I loosely use the term competent) can service their own equipment, but the new refrigerant sales restriction that went into effect on January, 1st 2018, prevented users from purchasing HFC refrigerant such as R-410A, R-404A, and R-134a unless they are registered with the Environmental Protection Agency.

The EPA will only register a user if they hold a current Fgas certificate, making it impossible for the general public to purchase HFC refrigerant from reputable suppliers.

There are however some sellers on EB that will sell to anyone a 10 Kg cylinder of R404A for around 300, even the small 2 Kg cylinders go for around the 150 mark.

I'm sure there has been many accidental releases having been reported and many more gone unreported that was probably responsible for the new sales restrictions.
 
@ mike plus one.
You must always: check your own local regulations/laws before doing anything.
This is a world wide web....
 
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