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Newbie struggling to sort through fake listings versus real listings
#1
Hello everyone. I have been planning to build a replacement battery for my son's Action Wheels Yamaha Raptor ATV and I've been trying to figure out what cells to buy for this(I don't have time to salvage cells right now).

It seems like there's a massive number of fake units being sold all over eBay and other sites. I've even heard of local stores having fakes and not even knowing. I really want to build him a modest battery with some 26650 cells, but units claiming 12800 maH are clearly fake and even some of those claiming to be certain brands are apparently fake.

Does anyone keep a blacklist of sellers who peddle fakes? Is there any site that is truly reliable to get proper units from? I have picked up a BT-3400(Rev 3.1), so I have the means now to test these cells for legitimacy. I already have some 3000maH LG batteries that I got with a vape a while back, but those were not cheap at all(10 bucks a piece at the local shop). I would really like to do something like a 4 or 5 p battery with 4 or 5 series. The original lead acid battery is 12V and rated at 12AH, but its about worthless now.

I need to keep the price low because we are very poor but my kid has needed something awesome for a while and I really want to make a good pack for him. I would really appreciate help sorting this out since I am so new to this. I'm also going to need to find a premade BMS that is affordable. Will I need a specialized charger too? Thanks!
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#2
Everything is a trade off.
Time vs money
New vs old
Extracting testing vs buy new and use
It seems you are asking for everything at once
Cheap,, high quality, no time spent.
I think you will have to choose something that is missed.
Maybe extracted already tested cells would be the best bang for buck?
Otherwise Thunderheart reviews new cells from queenbattery. Do they meet your requirements?
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#3
I built a 4S5P (14.8V) pack for my son's PowerWheels Jeep. I used Samsung inr18650-20r (2.0Ahr) cells salvaged from power tool batteries. I was able to gather enough good cells from Home Depot recycle bins, mostly from Ryobi or Ridgid packs. Alternatively, you can buy packs online/ebay for less than $4 cell.

The one snag ran into was that the 4s, 30A BMS I was using, would cut out. The way the jeep would send 100% power to the motors, the spike would trip the protection. I'm experimenting with using 2 BMSs in parallel. In the mean time, I was able to salvage some 12V batteries from an UPS battery backup.

Lastly, I have a bunch of LG 1.3Ah cells, from Ryobi packs. Some tested, some not. I'd be happy to send them to you, if you cover the shipping cost (assuming you're in the continental US).
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#4
That is a really nice thing to offer Lucan.
Good on you!
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#5
(08-05-2019, 08:53 PM)Amish_Fighter_Pilot Wrote: Hello everyone. I have been planning to build a replacement battery for my son's Action Wheels Yamaha Raptor ATV and I've been trying to figure out what cells to buy for this(I don't have time to salvage cells right now).


I need to keep the price low because we are very poor but my kid has needed something awesome for a while and I really want to make a good pack for him. I would really appreciate help sorting this out since I am so new to this. I'm also going to need to find a premade BMS that is affordable. Will I need a specialized charger too? Thanks!

The BMS you will need to fend yourself for and also the charger. BUT this is your lucky day and your kid will have something awesome.
I have 1 set of 20 Sanyo UR18650RX 1950mAh high drain cells all tested good except 1 that looks like it might be a SD but I could also have pulled it out of the tester too soon. As you know I live and die by IR and the IR is good so I would say it is probably a good cell.
But wait there is more 20 INR18650-20Q cells all with an IR ~19mΩ to 22mΩ some tested some not, the tested ones 1800mAh and up.
But wait there is more 23 ICR18650-22P not tested cells but IR is at an very acceptable 20mΩ to 24mΩ
As they are below my #1 capacity limit and #2 below my IR threshold as they are really high drain cells. you are more than welcome to them .
Cover the shipping and they are yours. PM me your info. I will not use them and I cannot think of a better home for them to go to than your sons toy.
Just think you can build 3 packs with these. There is one condition though I want a progress report on the build.

Wolf
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If 18 X 650 = 2200+mAh then we have power! 
May all your Cells have an IR of 75mΩ or less Smile
Last count as of 8/7/2019
Total Number of Cells Recorded and processed                 6149
Total Cells required for PowIRwall                                   2856
Total Cells ≥2200mAh, ≥80%, ≥35mΩ, ≤75mΩ, ≥4.12V   2760
For Info Google Drive
Not your average Wolf       
            Cool
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#6
Another lovely offer!
What a great bunch on this forum!
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#7
(08-06-2019, 03:03 AM)Oz18650 Wrote: Another lovely offer!
What a great bunch on this forum!

Wow! You aren't kidding. I really didn't expect all that. I would be completely cool with covering shipping for those. That's awesome! We've been homeless for the last 3 years basically(its complicated), but we have been spending most of this year working ourselves to death getting this property ready for our tiny home. Its kind of remote, so there's not other kids out there to play with. He loves his ATV(he insists it is an "ASTV" though lol), but the lame lead-acid battery is really worn out and he gets maybe 10 minutes of run time out of it, sometimes more if he doesn't go up any inclines. We've been saving up change for a new lead acid battery but then I started looking at lithium packs as a more serious option. I want to make that thing awesome like never before. One bit of good news is that someone was giving away a non-working ATV that was identical to it so I have one I can dissect and use for parts in case I ruin anything in this adventure! We have to get our concrete done today so I'll try to respond to individual posts here as soon as possible! Thanks again guys!!!!
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#8
(08-05-2019, 10:29 PM)Lucan Wrote: I built a 4S5P (14.8V) pack for my son's PowerWheels Jeep. I used Samsung inr18650-20r (2.0Ahr) cells salvaged from power tool batteries. I was able to gather enough good cells from Home Depot recycle bins, mostly from Ryobi or Ridgid packs. Alternatively, you can buy packs online/ebay for less than $4 cell.

The one snag ran into was that the 4s, 30A BMS I was using, would cut out. The way the jeep would send 100% power to the motors, the spike would trip the protection. I'm experimenting with using 2 BMSs in parallel. In the mean time, I was able to salvage some 12V batteries from an UPS battery backup.

Lastly, I have a bunch of LG 1.3Ah cells, from Ryobi packs. Some tested, some not. I'd be happy to send them to you, if you cover the shipping cost (assuming you're in the continental US).

That sounds great! I have a tester so I would have no problem going through and making sure they're good. I sent you a PM about it. Thanks for the generosity! Hopefully this will be a really good learning project for me to get into making batteries!

(08-06-2019, 01:03 AM)Wolf Wrote:
(08-05-2019, 08:53 PM)Amish_Fighter_Pilot Wrote: Hello everyone. I have been planning to build a replacement battery for my son's Action Wheels Yamaha Raptor ATV and I've been trying to figure out what cells to buy for this(I don't have time to salvage cells right now).


I need to keep the price low because we are very poor but my kid has needed something awesome for a while and I really want to make a good pack for him. I would really appreciate help sorting this out since I am so new to this. I'm also going to need to find a premade BMS that is affordable. Will I need a specialized charger too? Thanks!

The BMS you will need to fend yourself for and also the charger. BUT this is your lucky day and your kid will have something awesome.
I have 1 set of 20 Sanyo UR18650RX 1950mAh high drain cells all tested good except 1 that looks like it might be a SD but I could also have pulled it out of the tester too soon. As you know I live and die by IR and the IR is good so I would say it is probably a good cell.
But wait there is more 20 INR18650-20Q cells all with an IR ~19mΩ to 22mΩ some tested some not, the tested ones 1800mAh and up.
But wait there is more 23 ICR18650-22P not tested cells but IR is at an very acceptable 20mΩ to 24mΩ
As they are below my #1 capacity limit and #2 below my IR threshold as they are really high drain cells. you are more than welcome to them .
Cover the shipping and they are yours. PM me your info. I will not use them and I cannot think of a better home for them to go to than your sons toy.
Just think you can build 3 packs with these. There is one condition though I want a progress report on the build.

Wolf


Thank you! This should really help make this happen! I have plenty of wire and all sorts of chargers from years of scrapping work. I wish I had realized more over the years that there was value in the laptop batteries. I used to pass them over but I won't be doing that anymore!

This should make for a good learning project and should hopefully have that thing moving properly... Anyway, I will send you a PM here in a minute. Thanks! This forum is great!
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#9
make it 4s.
gives it a bit more power and wont hurt it a bit.
you would be surprised to see what those motors will tolerate.
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#10
I've never played with electric ATVs, but here are some thoughts.

You'll definitely want to add a BMS to protect the lithium cells from various conditions that could lead it to catch fire. I've not used this particular one, but the 45A version seems like a reasonable choice. Lacks over-temperature protection tough.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32882063...b201603_52

Probably a good idea to add a fuse in there. A BMS can fail, too.

You might want to add ceramic capacitors to the motors to reduce voltage spikes that might otherwise kill nearby electric components. The parts cost virtually nothing.
https://medium.com/jungletronics/dc-moto...9d8ed174cc


Some inspiration:
http://forum.modifiedpowerwheels.com/vie...hp?t=19976
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Modular PowerShelf using 3D printed packs.  30kWh and growing.
https://secondlifestorage.com/t-AJW22-s-...PowerShelf
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