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BMS integration to Victron + system design
#1
hello!

I ask for assistance in selecting a BMS for a home energy storage system (on grid, solar buffering).
I'm not quite sure what information to provide. I've estimated the nightly demand is approx 7kwh (calculated for 10hr use).

Already installed:
SolarEdge SE9K three phase AC coupled interver. 11.2kWp total panels.

I am looking to couple the SolarEdge with the Victron infrastructure.
To be purchased:
-Victron infrastructure (Venus control unit) https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-syst...g/venus-gx
-A Multiplus inverter/charger. Charge capacity around 35-70A depending on model: https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-...ltiplus-ii
-Winston LiFePO4 prismatic cells. Capacity somewhere between 200Ah to 400Ah in 48V nominal setup. (24V might become relevant depending on multiplus pricing). Final budget will decide the size of cell. Estimated 10-14kw setup.
-BMS that can talk to the Victron control unit.

Questions:
1. I've found Batrium and REC that have some sort of verified "unsupported compability" with Victron. If there are vastly better options (price or performance), please link?

2. Does the required balancing capability of the BMS differ between a 18650 based bank, and a bank based of 400Ah cells. Any rules of thumb or way to navigate a suitable bms?


Cheers
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#2
>2. Does the required balancing capability of the BMS differ between a 18650 based bank, and a bank based of 400Ah cells. Any rules of thumb or way to navigate a suitable bms?
Batrium (among other things) is well suited manage/balance *large* cells. Doesn't matter if they are LiFePO4 or 18650. Batrium can manage a lot of cells and large cells. 400ah is middle of the road for Batrium. Batrium is so flexible you can add more than 1 longmon (cell device) per cell and increase balance speed. The rumor is that a single longmon has been successfully deployed with up to a 1000ah cell. My own cells are 260ah and balance very easily.

I'm not familiar with Victron equipment so can't comment other than to say that Batrium control options are quit extensive.
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#3
Batrium works great. In conjunction with Victron i cant comment

Wm5 for a single bank is generally enough. Wm4 + longmons and you can have 10000ah if you want with enough longmons.

All depends on how much you need to balance. Note that 18650 is just a form-factor and nothing else...

I run around 400Ah per longmon. Its in the middle recommended figure. Read this: https://support.batrium.com/article/91-c...iderations
The Ultimate DIY Solar and build place
YouTube / Forum system setup / My webpage  Diy Tech & Repairs

Current: 10kW Mpp Hybrid | 4kW PIP4048 | 2x PCM60x | 83kWh LiFePo4 | 10kWh 14s 18650 |  66*260W Poly
Upcoming: 14S 18650~30kWh | Automatic trip breakers, and alot more
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#4
Definitely go 48V & as large batteries as you can afford.
You'll regret it later if you go with 24V for the size of system you're doing.
If you have the time and inclination, you can build with 18650's but going with prismatic cells in an all new system is a good choice for a faster build.
Many folk here use new or second life 18650 cells (& respect to them!) but you have to put in the time to go that way.
Running off solar, DIY & electronics fan :-)
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#5
Thanks a lot for the suggestions guys!

@daromer thanks for the link. that provide all the sense of security I was looking for. Indeed does Batrium look promising, particularly in the longer run.
Interestingly the REC BMS also provides 1.3A / cell worth of passive balancing and thus would be comparably suitable for my size of cells unless I miss something?
https://www.rec-bms.com/BMSSMA.html

@Redpacket 48V - check. I will adhere to that advice.
Unfortunately I am under some time crunch to get this battery solution up and running (must be comissioned and inspected before end of 2019).
I like the idea of working with smaller amounts of cells, particularly after watching a few videos by @daromer where bank capacity has been mentioned. It is indeed appealing to grow using smaller cells rather than prisms (ie, the increments that make sense are smaller).

I was hoping for someone to give me some reassurance with the Victron-infrastructure integration.

Maybe I should reconsider??
I am located in Sweden. Maybe @daromer has some fitting suggestions?

Maybe I have overestimated the necessity of the BMS to communicate with the charger? Please share your thoughts.
Currently I am thinking that without proper communication between inverter&charger and BMS the overall system design is suffering considerably.

Looking forward to further discussion!
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#6
Victron is a well proven provider, I’ve used their products in commercial remote installs, not with a Batrium BMS though.

My home system which is under construction is using a Victron Multiplus, Victron Venus and Batrium Watchmon 4.

Batrium has information on configuration settings to communicate with the Venus.

I don’t have proven results with the combination yet though sorry.

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#7
Victron (Venus device running ESS, Multiplus, MPPT, energy metering etc etc ) & Batrium or REC work well .

But - dont expect to be able to use the full bypass current of either without additional cooling (a well built battery won't require much balancing), dont expect to be able to configure such a system with negligible prior knowledge, any existing grid tired installation using a inverter that supports frequency shift control can be simply integrated, dont assume 14s normally 48v is the correct battery string configuration (build the battery based on your inverter/chargers), dont under estimate the cost of fusing/protection.

REC support is superb and very quick - Batrium support seems to still be as you'd expect from a very small company - rightly so, both companies assume some competence.

Solardad and completelycharged like this post
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#8
"SolarEdge SE9K three phase AC coupled interver"
If you can't quantify how much they cost, it's a deal, I'll buy 5 of them for 3 lumps of rocking horse ......
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#9
From batrium you can balance 10A from a single cell if you want. Just add 10 longmons as example.

For continues 1A per longmons is rather normal. (Depending on ambient temperature and how you mount them)
The Ultimate DIY Solar and build place
YouTube / Forum system setup / My webpage  Diy Tech & Repairs

Current: 10kW Mpp Hybrid | 4kW PIP4048 | 2x PCM60x | 83kWh LiFePo4 | 10kWh 14s 18650 |  66*260W Poly
Upcoming: 14S 18650~30kWh | Automatic trip breakers, and alot more
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#10
(08-15-2019, 05:31 AM)daromer Wrote: From batrium you can balance 10A from a single cell if you want. Just add 10 longmons as example.

How do you ensure that all mons turn on at exactly the same voltage ?
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