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Advice on GTIL Inverter
#1
(02-01-2019, 03:37 AM)Wolf Wrote:
(02-01-2019, 02:33 AM)Solardad Wrote: Has anyone successfully setup the 2000w version in the US / split phase setup (120/240)?

Stumped in understanding if it is possible given the output is 220v. I assume wire output is euro spec., 1 hot, 1 neutral and 1 ground vs. US 2 hot and 1 neutral/ground.

I would love to have the larger inverter vs multiple 1ks at that price.

If so how did you wire it to your breaker?

Thanks...!

I assume you bought the US version which floats the ground as a neutral.

Wiring diagram is in this post.


Let me know if you have any questions


Wolf



Hi Wolf and all
I am inexperienced, but I really hope you can help me with my new project. 

I have a workshop where I consume 1000W-1200W per hour from 8:00 to 17:00 (this is mainly my LED lighting). At night and on weekends it is about 0.1 kWh. Very important information that mainly in my workshop consumption goes on ONE phase the load 8 AM - 5 PM : L1 - 90% and L2 - 10% (on L1 - approx 9A) 

I need your advice!

Question 1:

which model GTIL2 to buy considering all the data on my consumption? 1000W or 2000W? Which will suits better?
Question2:
Question about the CT sensor (s). If consumption is in one phase L1, then maybe I do not need separate split-phase sensors?

I have many used German panels 280 watts  5years old SOLARWORLD SW280 MONO BLACK Voc 39

[*]Nominal Maximum Power (Pmax): 280 Watts
[*]Open Circuit Voltage (Voc): 39.50 Volts
[*]Maximum Power Point Voltage (Vmpp): 31.20 Volts
[*]Short Circuit Current (Isc): 9.71 Amps
[*]Maximum Power Point Current (Impp): 9.07 Amps


Question3:
How many panels do I need to connect for 2000w model? 8 panels: 2s 4p?    

Please tell me how should I build a system?
 
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#2
This is a question about "using" the GTIL, not external limiting.

If you don't like the title, please do a Full Edit on the original post and you can change the title.
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#3
A few more infos needed for giving good advice:

Are you in the US with split L1: 120V, Neutral, L2:120V ? The 2000W model does only supports 190~260VAC.
Are you planning to add batteries? Without, you'll waste PV power you didn't use, especially wasteful over the weekends. With battery, that power could be stored for use in the evenings (tiny consumption, but it adds up!) and when cloudy/rainy.
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#4
For the 2000w U would want to use 6 of those panels 2 in series 3 in parallel. U could use 8 panels instead of 6 but that put your amps over max amps for your inverter even tho they say they limit the amperage on their own I wouldn’t install panels that aren’t going to be maxing the amps the inverter can handle. Also the 2000w version is 240v so u would have to supply power to both legs of main panel. I think u should use 1000w version 45-90v which is better for your really unbalanced main panel loads, since u said most of your loads are on one leg. So then u would want 2 panels in series and 2 of those sets in parallel. If using the 1000w u need only 1 ct cuz u are only supplying to one leg of your main panel.
If u plan to use batteries full time the u can make your pv array whatever size a charge controller that u would use could handle
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#5
It is sound advice to not run the inverters at 100%. But with these GTIL, you can limit the output to any value (either output Watts, or input Amps), so there is absolutely no problem attaching 3000W of PV panels to a 1000W GTIL. In fact, since PV panels rarely output 100% of rated power, it's not a bad advice to oversize the panels.
Just make sure to keep the OC voltage within the supported max.

For my system (with batteries), I currently have 2x 1kW GTIL units set to output max 750W each (just during the HOT summer), attached to 6.4kW of PV panels.
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#6
.....
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#7
Of course, the number of panels connected in series (Voc * series) must always be lower than what the maximum voltage the inverter is capable of.
But with _these_(*1) GTIL you can connect as many PV panels in parallel as you want (*2), because it will only take as much current as it is capable of (or is limited to).

So there is absolutely no problem connecting even 20 PV panels (=5600W) in 10p2s or 2s10p configuration to the GTIL1000.
If you think about it, how is the GTIL supposed to know if it's connected to 20 PV panels, or to a strong battery? The input ports are the same, and there is no setting to configure what type the power source is.


(*1) Many other inverters are not like this, and will get fried if you connect more kW of PV panels than the inverter is rated for!
(*2) Beware of fusing/breaker requirements when connecting many panels in parallel. Otherwise the cable might catch fire during malfunctions or accidental shorts.
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#8
Agreed
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#9
(08-18-2019, 10:31 PM)ajw22 Wrote: A few more infos needed for giving good advice:

Are you in the US with split L1: 120V, Neutral, L2:120V ?  The 2000W model does only supports 190~260VAC.
Are you planning to add batteries?  Without, you'll waste PV power you didn't use, especially wasteful over the weekends.  With battery, that power could be stored for use in the evenings (tiny consumption, but it adds up!) and when cloudy/rainy.

Thank you so much for your reply. Yes, I'm in San Diego and it is still in the USA.  Heart
I read your answer and I'm confused now. I thought that there are European models 1 phase- 220- 240 volts, and there are models for the USA where there are split phases. Where there are L1 and L2 two split phases.
 

If 2000W model does only supports 190~260VAC then why do people in the United States buy 2000 models? if they use only 190~260VAC. 
I saw this picture about the 2000 model and it says that in this model there are two lines of 110

 


So please what is 190~260VAC?  Sad 
I apologize perhaps for a stupid question.

And I was interested in your comment about the batteries. What is the best way to connect them? Do you have a reliable connection scheme? So many different schemes, I just got confused.


(08-19-2019, 01:24 AM)Doin it Wrote: For the 2000w U would want to use 6 of those panels 2 in series 3 in parallel. U could use 8 panels instead of 6 but that put your amps over max amps for your inverter even tho they say they limit the amperage on their own I wouldn’t install panels that aren’t going to be maxing the amps the inverter can handle. Also the 2000w version is 240v so u would have to supply power to both legs of main panel. I think u should use 1000w version 45-90v which is better for your really unbalanced main panel loads, since u said most of your loads are on one leg. So then u would want 2 panels in series and 2 of those sets in parallel. If using the 1000w u need only 1 ct cuz u are only supplying to one leg of your main panel.
If u plan to use batteries full time the u can make your pv array whatever size a charge controller that u would use could handle

I was interested in your comment about the batteries. What is the best way to connect them? Do you have a reliable connection plan? So many different schemes, I just got confused.
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#10
There are other GTI with limiters, so just to make sure that we're talking about the same devices:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076KBCHBM/ref...wDb4B6HZ3C

As far as I know, there are only 3 versions.  The US/Australian/European/etc versions only differ in the included localized power plug.  There is no real ("proper") split phase support with these devices.
1. GTIL1000 supporting both AC 90V~140V and 190VAC~260VAC (auto sensing), DC 25V~60V
2. GTIL1000 supporting both AC 90V~140V and 190VAC~260VAC (auto sensing), DC 45V~90V
3. GTIL2000 supporting just AC 190V~260V, DC 45V~90V

There are 3 ways to connect them to the US split phase system:
1. Use one GTIL1000 device on L1-N (120V), sensor clamp on L1.  Optionally use 2nd GTIL1000 device on L2-N (120V), sensor clamp on L2.  This is the safest bet as it will work with no backfeeding on the(/either) phase.  So the utilities company will be none the wiser.
2. Use a GTIL1000 device on L1-N (120V), modified dual sensor clamp on L1 and L2.  There will be backfeeding on one phase, but will be offset by draw on the other phase.  Might be a problem with some meters / utility companies.  Modification of sensor clamp is simple and proven.
3. Use a GTILx000 device on L1-L2 (240V), modified dual sensor clamp on L1 and L2.  There will be backfeeding on one phase, but will (really?) be offset by draw on the other phase. Might be a problem with some meters / utility companies.  Modification of sensor clamp is... let's just say there are looong active threads about it.

The resellers claiming split phase support are referring to methods #2 and #3.  Misleading at the least.

If one GTIL is not enough, you can install 2 or more devices on the same phase.  But they will not share the workload equally.


Batteries: Have a look at my project page for a working example.  Quite happy with all the components, but gathering battery cells is quite a lot of work.  Of course you can save yourself a lot of work by using Nissan Leaf, Volt, or Tesla batteries.
In any case, you better plan it beforehand, because charge controllers and GTIL may have different voltage requirements.  Rewiring your PV panels afterwards to increase/decrease voltage would be a PITA.
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daromer (08-19-2019, 05:58 AM), emuland-metroman (08-19-2019, 07:30 PM), sl1me (08-28-2019, 04:26 AM), Wolf (08-24-2019, 01:18 AM), Solardad (09-07-2019, 07:46 PM), ajw22 (09-04-2019, 02:30 AM), RikH (08-19-2019, 07:44 PM), OffGridInTheCity (08-20-2019, 04:55 AM), Doin it (08-30-2019, 09:26 PM), gpearce52 (08-19-2019, 09:50 PM), Marrcin (08-21-2019, 07:21 PM), 3xtr3m3 (08-20-2019, 06:46 AM), suntan901 (08-27-2019, 03:29 PM), SanDiegoMaxim (09-03-2019, 01:19 AM), chuckp (08-25-2019, 04:16 PM), Riplash (08-24-2019, 10:44 PM), avm131 (08-21-2019, 06:46 PM), Sean (08-24-2019, 08:37 AM), Majorphill (08-23-2019, 05:00 AM), Korishan (08-24-2019, 03:00 AM), jdeadman (08-23-2019, 07:03 PM), wim (08-22-2019, 06:02 AM), watts-on (08-24-2019, 10:32 AM), Geek (08-19-2019, 04:41 AM), Ivo Staelens (08-23-2019, 05:20 PM), ad8mustanggt (08-28-2019, 08:32 PM), cnous3 (08-26-2019, 02:32 PM), BaronVonChickenPants (08-20-2019, 03:02 AM), EnergyDoc (09-05-2019, 06:01 AM), completelycharged (08-24-2019, 03:34 PM), nettermann90 (08-22-2019, 06:57 AM)

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