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Falling Battery Prices ....
#11
(08-28-2019, 03:56 AM)ozz93666 Wrote:
(08-28-2019, 02:50 AM)OffGridInTheCity Wrote: My actual cost (no including pack building labor) has been $307/kwh so far (2018/2019)  buying 'good' (95% original specs) used batteries from Alarm Hookup and similar. 
That seems a high price for used , you need to pressure your supplier for a reduction ... New cells can be bought for less....

For comparison a fairly high capacity NEW 18650 holds 10Whrs ... 100 would hold 1KW  ...$2 each gives a price of $200/KwHr on the chart ...

We are reaching the point where re using is not sensible ....

Look at the price in 2010 or even 2014 ... then it made good sense ....

The $307/kwh is for a complete working battery - including busbar, fuses, solder, tools, BMS, holders, chargers, etc etc - not just the cost of cells.   The cells themselves were aprox $200/kwh which is $1.59/cell in my case.
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#12
Daarom noem ik onze overheid, de roverheid... Big Grin
That's why i call our government the roberment Big Grin
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#13
$100/kWh by 2026 - is this excluding Tesla for some particular reason along with the top 3 largest cell manufacturers ? 2026 Tesla is likely going to be around $70 or lower and all depende on commodity prices and not the battery tech as the build costs is a small fraction of the cell cost in this timeframe.

The $ per kWh pricing does not take into account cycle life so is pretty much useless to actually work out if a cell is worth using or even viable. Sort of like saying how much a 400hp car costs, useless measure of technology.


Has anyone ever seen a comparison chart of $/kWh on a throughput basis (i.e. cell X has 20Wh capacity, lasts 800 cycles : 800 x 20 = 1.6kWh and cost say $1.2 each so $0.75/kWh throughput life cost)

This would be a lot more interesting, for example 2.2Ah 3.6V 18650 cell (say 7.9Wh for simplicity) and if a good cell lasts 1200 cycles 7.9x1200 = 9.5kWh life and if it cost $1.5 per cell then that would be $0.16/kWh throughput life cost.
OffGridInTheCity and not2bme like this post
If you can't quantify how much they cost, it's a deal, I'll buy 5 of them for 3 lumps of rocking horse ......
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#14
(08-30-2019, 03:20 PM)completelycharged Wrote: This would be a lot more interesting, for example 2.2Ah 3.6V 18650 cell (say 7.9Wh for simplicity) and if a good cell lasts 1200 cycles 7.9x1200 = 9.5kWh life and if it cost $1.5 per cell then that would be $0.16/kWh throughput life cost.


It's almost what the running cost is vs purchase cost. Just like buying a car that has more HP but the mpg is your running cost. That's why paying over $1.50 per cell isn't worth it if it comes out to $.16/kwh if your local utility is only $.12/kwh then you will most likely be ahead if you were just on grid.

The one thing is that even though the batteries do degrade over time, it's not as if after 1200 cycles it will not be able to produce anymore, but maybe produce at a lower capacity.
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#15
(08-30-2019, 05:08 PM)not2bme Wrote:
(08-30-2019, 03:20 PM)completelycharged Wrote: This would be a lot more interesting, for example 2.2Ah 3.6V 18650 cell (say 7.9Wh for simplicity) and if a good cell lasts 1200 cycles 7.9x1200 = 9.5kWh life and if it cost $1.5 per cell then that would be $0.16/kWh throughput life cost.


It's almost what the running cost is vs purchase cost. Just like buying a car that has more HP but the mpg is your running cost. That's why paying over $1.50 per cell isn't worth it if it comes out to $.16/kwh if your local utility is only $.12/kwh then you will most likely be ahead if you were just on grid.

The one thing is that even though the batteries do degrade over time, it's not as if after 1200 cycles it will not be able to produce anymore, but maybe produce at a lower capacity.

Agree!  My grid is .115c/kwh  and I'm currently running a 22yr ROI!!   Of course grid will only go up and I live remotely so the overdue Oregon coastal earthquake 'could' create a Puerto Rico type situation...   but cold reality?   DIY Powerwall does not pay for itself in pure $ at this point.     HOWEVER - its is a LOT OF FUN, a great hobby, etc to be producing megwatts of power each year  Big Grin
Ibiza likes this post
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#16
Tesla is already down to 100$ at the cell level.

The goal is 100$/kWh at the pack level, which includes the connections+inverter+cooling.
The power of lithium ion is in our hands!
We'll show them what we're made of!
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#17
I expect to come in well below $100/kWh. With almost 2000 usable cells so far (avg. 2278 mAh), my current cost per cell is $0.30, or about $30 / kWh. All used laptop packs - $1/lb. I expect cell cost would be much lower if I loosened my standards on what I call a "keeper".
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#18
(08-28-2019, 05:19 AM)RikH Wrote: Here: 200Ah LiFePo4 cells for $ 250 kWh.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/40000012...2e0eR6f4Dl

When I found these 1,5 month ago they went for 210. So no price dropping in this case.

In the meantime I've questioned Eco Power Group about these batteries since Ali seller BLS claims this is the manufacturer of the cells. I asked them if that was right and indeed these cells are produced buy them. But: they are B level batteries and on my question what that means they answered "B level product means damage in appearance, insufficient capacity, or long-term inventory battery". So it isn't that cheap after all. Price from Eco Power group is $ 0.8 per Ah which is still a reasonable price in my opinion. It is FOB price though...
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#19
The dollar has nowadays one stripe instead of two.
Go with that flow.
I mean the dollar against the euro goes up and down.
One time you pay 90 euro for 100 dollars and the second time you pay 110 euro for 100 dollars.
Just saying
The time for 0.22fl is a long time ago, the same with 200 euro for 100 dollar.
take the british pond,,,,what happened to it the last 5 years, or gold the last 20 years....and your paycheck?

BLS...if you look up there "partners" you will see some cheap (fake?) sites, after some trouble.

http://ecopowerpack.com/show.asp?id=97
Link was down btw
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#20
(09-27-2019, 05:23 PM)100kwh-hunter Wrote: http://ecopowerpack.com/show.asp?id=97
Link was down btw

Link fixed
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