When Power Company Shuts down due to Fire Risk

OffGridInTheCity

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Hey Folks

Last year a whole town in northern California (Paradise)burned up due to an electrical fire started by a the power company lines dropping sparks into the forrest-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Fire_(2018) This was *huge*.

One of the 'new tools' of the power companies in our regions (California, Oregon, Washington states) is for the power company to shut off power in the case of high wind storms to pre-empt starting fires. PGE (California Power company) invoked this recently and has been reported thatpower was off for several days in a row (not just a couple of hours).

Obviously, a working solar system would be welcome in a case like this - and I was wondering if this is occurring anywhere else besides Western US?
 
I'm in canada and we have intermittent Power outages due to ageing Grid and Lots of trees but My power wall is primarily set for critical Loads. Fridge, freezer and internet (yes the internet is critical lol) But I can put other loads on it in the event of a power failure like furnace and lights. I'm currently at about 12kWh's of storage @ 24V and a 2.4kW inverter.

With 1kW of Panels it's enough to keep the Batteries charged in the summer but only give me 1/2 of my usage in the winter so I just charge at nigh when the power is cheaper.
 
Wow, that's crazy. Understandable, but crazy. I can't see, though, why they'd have the power off for "days". That doesn't make sense. The winds don't stay at dangerous speeds that long. Unless it's a hurricane/cyclone, but then the power is most likely going out anyways due to the storm.

As far as I know, we don't have any such actions here in Florida. Even though we get the occasional forest fire, it's nothing compared to Cali. Like a match compared to a bon-fire.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Fire_(2018)
Many of the towers were over 100 years old, and the section that caused the fire was not even inspected the last 6 years. They wait 7 years to replace deficient parts. "a 2011 audit [...] found several thousand deficiencies".

I'd say they've just been criminally negligent for a looong time, and now are trying to blame it all on the weather.
 
Just reading this in the paper this morning.... In all my life I've never seen steady/reliable grid power at risk like this. Crazy (makes you wonder about the future) but helping me justify off-grid solar in a way I never thought would happen.

image_wojsdn.jpg


Another article on same date/event from Los Angeles Times
https://www.latimes.com/california/...0-counties-ahead-of-wildfire-friendly-weather
 
And many large lawsuits will ensue because ppl died because their A/C units couldn't keep their homes cool enough because the power company cut the power.
 
100kwh-hunter said:
According to our news, they already shut down some areas?

"More than 1 million in California are without power tp curb wildfire risk; more outages coming"https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/10/09/california-pge-power-outage-affect-millions-prevent-wildfire/3916848002/

I read that in some cases this could be for 5 DAYS (or more). Doesn't seem like a well run power company - but I'm not an expert, which is why I was interested if this is happening anywhere else in the world.
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49982236

A power company is cutting electricity to around 800,000 homes, businesses and other locations in Northern California, in an attempt to prevent wildfires.

Large swathes of the San Francisco Bay Area - though not the city itself - have lost power, angering residents.

The regions utility company, Pacific Gas and Electric (PG&E), has warned the shutdown could last several days.

The company's transmission lines started the deadliest wildfire in Californias history last year.

With weather forecasts predicting high winds, the move is intended to prevent the risk of fallen power lines igniting more wildfires.

"The conditions are ripe: dry fuel, high winds, warm event. Any spark can create a significant event," said Ray Riordan, director of the Office of Emergency Management in San Jose, during a press conference on Tuesday.

The National Weather Service has issued a red flag warning for the Santa Cruz Mountains, North and East Bay regions until Thursday, warning that conditions could result in "the strongest offshore wind event in the area since the October 2017 North Bay fires".

As of Wednesday morning, PG&E said around 500,000 customers were without power. Another 200,000 were scheduled to lose power by noon, local time, but the utility company has delayed further shutdowns until later in the afternoon due to changing weather conditions.

The huge Camp Fire" in the town of Paradise last year burned 150,000 acres and left 86 people dead. An investigation determined that poorly maintained PG&E equipment was to blame for starting the historic blaze.

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The firm was also blamed for deadly fires in 2017. Subsequent lawsuits led the publicly traded company to declare bankruptcy in 2019, a process that is still ongoing. PG&E is the sole provider of gas and electricity for much of Northern California, and so the vast majority of consumers in the region do not have an alternative source of power.

We have experienced an unprecedented fire season the past two years, said Tamar Sarkissian, a PG&E spokeswoman, speaking to BBC partner CBS News.

"And what we learned from that is that we need to be taking further steps to ensure the safety of our customers and the communities that we serve. Public safety power shut off is one of the many steps that we're taking."

PG&E has carried out several planned outages over the course of the past year, though none at the scale of what is scheduled this week.

None of us are happy about it, said California governor, Gavin Newsom. But this is part of something that we knew was likely to occur several months ago, when PG&E finally woke up to their responsibility to keep people safe.

The outages are expected to affect more than half of the state's counties.

The warnings stretch north of the San Francisco Bay Area, in areas such as Napa and Sonoma, famed for wine-making. Further south, many cities synonymous with Silicon Valley giants could be affected, such as Cupertino, home to Apple.

Local shops reported an influx of customers buying up supplies for a black out that could, if the weather remains adverse, last for several days.

"The idea of five days without electricity is devastating, said Libby Schaaf, mayor of Oakland, but added: "We fully expect that to be a worst-case scenario. This is our first time going through this.

But websites providing information about the cuts have buckled under heavy traffic loads. Many residents have taken to PG&Es social media channels to express their frustration.

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"This is ridiculous! wrote Veronica Key.

"You wasted the money you should have been using on safety precautions to give dividends to your stockholders. Now you have to shut down our power like some sort of third world country.

"When you do shut down the power you cant even get your notification website to work properly! Get it together PG&E! No more rate increases to pay for your incompetence.

PG&E has opened 28 Community Resource Centers in the region to provide restrooms, bottled water and electronic-device charging during daylight hours.

Many schools in the area have told students to stay at home on Wednesday and await further information for the remainder of the week.

Despite widespread frustration, local meteorologist Mike Pechner told CBS the move was warranted.

"It's not an overreaction at all. As the wind comes in, the wires, of course, oscillate back and forth. If they touch, they start a fire.

"[Cutting power] is taking downed wires and high winds out of the fire equation."
 
Another shutdown is imminent - causing *huge* issues. Anecdotally, it lookslike this is a poorly run west coast power company (PGE) rather than a general technical issue (i.e. transmission lines thru dry forrest) since I don't see any reports of problems like this from other parts of the country or world.

image_ibgzex.jpg


I lived in San Jose 20yrs (so I can sympathize) but currently live near the red dot in the top of the picture (southern Oregon) that says "Active Fires" so I'm near but thankfully we have a different power company that seems to be better off :)
 
OffGridInTheCity said:
Another shutdown is imminent - causing *huge* issues. Anecdotally, it lookslike this is a poorly run west coast power company (PGE) rather than a general technical issue (i.e. transmission lines thru dry forrest) since I don't see any reports of problems like this from other parts of the country or world.

I imagine there will be plenty of shutdowns over the next several years, sadly.
I would agree on the poorly run, part. From what I've read/heard, they've asked for government bailout more than once, and have tried to raise power prices several times as well. Looks to me like they have spread themselves way to far and now they can't keep up with the infrastructure.
There was an article that stated that their power lines have been poorly maintained and this was what was causing the dropped lines. I suppose this could be true. Here in Fl the lines are replaced on a fairly regular basis. In fact, they've been systematically going through and upgrading the wire to a heavier gauge. I only speak primarily of Clay Electric, but they are a not-for-profit power company. If they can afford to go out and fix the lines, then I know the rest of the state are doing the same thing.
This doesn't seem like a huge issue at the forefront, however, during hurricane season, we can see winds in excess of 150mph on the shores, and up to 100mph on the mainland. How high are the winds getting in Cali??? From the articles, it's the winds knocking the lines down, not trees. Wonder how many rusted bolts are holding the lines up.
 
DUCK....100MPH, its 160km an hour, at most we see over the big water here is 130 km an hour..terrible.
Good luck to you all....160mph......dam......
 
Should be like it is in Sweden where power companies have to pay when its outages. This was the case 10 years back when we had a MAJOR hurricane causing many being without out power for months. My paretns only had 6 weeks or so....
They now have burried many lines in Sweden and doing more and more for each day that goes past.
We hardly have any issues anymore now.
 
100kwh-hunter said:
DUCK....100MPH, its 160km an hour, at most we see over the big water here is 130 km an hour..terrible.
Good luck to you all....160mph......dam......

LOL Yeah, hurricanes/cyclones are no joke. Tornadoes are bad too, but on a whole different level.

Just to be clear, we only get those high winds a few times a year at most. Most of the time hurricane winds on the coast are lower than that. But when a Category 4 or 5 hurricane comes kissing the beach, we get those winds. Inland is gusts, not sustained like on the coast.
 
I thought it was all to do with a lack of line clearance cutting back away trees from all the lines. winds causing the branches to get close enough for a flashover.

image_apnxwi.jpg


When it is wet they can just burn them back by re-closing the circuit after a ground fault (tree getting it's branches burnt off)

Basic lack of maintenance over the years.....
 
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