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help fixing segway x2 i2 battery pack
#1
 Hello All,

New kid on the block here.. I recently purchased 2 - x2 segway's, both with dead batteries, both red lights. I was able to use the float charge method I read about at segwaychat .org
I actually got 3 out of 4 of them charged and working again  Big Grin

There's not much more info on segwaychat.org about repairing or rebuilding packs, but it looks like this group I where I need to be right now. Im so happy to have found you all. 

Ive never built a pack , or played around with a 10 yr old battery before, so to get even one working again is a huge win for me, as these packs are $900/ea new. I know I certainly wont see a whole lot more time out of them, but they do work for now, and Im grateful for that.

I do have the one that still goes to red and just wont turn green. It is accepting a float charge and measures 62V prior to reinstalling and charging on the segway, just like the other 3 did. But, this one wont turn green after trying the same methods used on the others. I tried several times. You would think if the other one from this same set worked, why wouldn't this one too? 

I opened the battery case up (which was not fun),  and tested each cell and noted the voltage on top of each group.  All cells within the group tested the same voltage noted on the pics. In other words, I was looking for dead cells, but there were no individual cells that appeared or measured 0v, nor were any cells a different number from any of the others in the same group. ( Im feeling this means something, but dont know what?! )

Like, perhaps the wire that goes to that specific group of cells is bad? Ive never done this before, so just talking out loud. I would really like to at least try any lower cost options before just quitting. Re-solder any bad looking connections? Replace the 12 low voltage cells? Forget it, you're gonna kill yourself?


Photo's below 


There's two groups that are only testing .02v and .25v, those are the two groups I would think should be replaced. 
Please be kind and clear, im new to all of this. Thanks so much for any input.   

Joe

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#2
try to charge the .xx Volt "pack" alone with a lifepo4 charger.

if they hold charge they are good. if self discharge, 1 cells is draining all the P to death.

usually i swap dead ones with new or recovered cells.

i dont own electronics, only battery pack
Building Lifepo4 Powerwall - atm 1400 cells growing

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#3
I dont have a lifepo4 charger, but I do have a  0-60V 0-5A Switching DC Power Supply


Do you mean I should try to charge a small group of 4 or 6 cells, that has a low voltage value of 0.25? or .02? like this:

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#4
Yes if you set the Powersupply to the highest one of your measured voltages and then set the current about 100mA(per cell so a group of 3 would be 300mA). Connect it to the Lowest cells first.

This will trickle charge the low packs. Once a pack gets up to 1.8V then you can crank up the current and let it charge up the rest of the way.

Setting it to the highest pack will force balance the entire pack.

Once the pack is balanced then let it sit for a week or so and then test the voltages to see if there is any significant voltage drop of those low cells. that may indicate problem cells
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#5
(10-04-2019, 12:42 PM)jdeadman Wrote: Yes if you set the Powersupply to the highest one of your measured voltages and then set the current about 100mA(per cell so a group of 3 would be 300mA).  Connect it to the Lowest cells first.


Thanks man! OK, i'll try this.
Is it ok to leave the cells as they are in the pack and just connect the + and - of my Power supply to that one group of 4 cells? I'll try the lowest group first that measures only .02v

So am i understanding this right, im trying to find the one (or more) cells thats ruining it for the whole pack?
One other thing I noticed.. of the 3 other batteries I fixed, this one is the only one that made  a slight spark when connecting it to the Power supply. the 3 others didn't do that. Could that mean this pack has a short in there--somewhere?
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#6
Yes as they are all in parallel which you can think of and 1 cell
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#7
(10-05-2019, 06:36 AM)TahoeJoe Wrote:
(10-04-2019, 12:42 PM)jdeadman Wrote: Yes if you set the Powersupply to the highest one of your measured voltages and then set the current about 100mA(per cell so a group of 3 would be 300mA).  Connect it to the Lowest cells first.


Thanks man! OK, i'll try this.
Is it ok to leave the cells as they are in the pack and just connect the + and - of my Power supply to that one group of 4 cells? I'll try the lowest group first that measures only .02v

So am i understanding this right, im trying to find the one (or more) cells thats ruining it for the whole pack?
One other thing I noticed.. of the 3 other batteries I fixed, this one is the only one that made  a slight spark when connecting it to the Power supply. the 3 others didn't do that. Could that mean this pack has a short in there--somewhere?


i push every cells our of the pack

https://secondlifestorage.com/showthread.php?tid=7073

those 0.02V should be dead or very low capacity (they starve under 2.5v and kill chemistry)

but sometimes they are still good
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Building Lifepo4 Powerwall - atm 1400 cells growing

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#8
(10-04-2019, 12:42 PM)jdeadman Wrote: Yes if you set the Powersupply to the highest one of your measured voltages and then set the current about 100mA(per cell so a group of 3 would be 300mA).  Connect it to the Lowest cells first.

This will trickle charge the low packs.    Once a pack gets up to 1.8V then you can crank up the current and let it charge up the rest of the way. 

Setting it to the highest pack will force balance the entire pack.

Once the pack is balanced then let it sit for a week or so and then test the voltages to see if there is any significant voltage drop of those low cells.  that may indicate problem cells

>This will trickle charge the low packs.

So to do that, can I put my positive and neg leads of my charger here as shown to charge this group? Do I have this diagram right?  Or do I charge each cell individually? Pardon my misunderstanding, im new to this and I dont see any +/- markings on the batteries, they are still all glued together. I wouldn't mind charging the low voltage group (0.25v) of 4 cells, if I knew that was a positive step and where the charger leads should go. Thanks so much for any assistance.
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#9
You can actually see the + (positive) marking on the battery     

So Yes find some way to connect one side of the bus bar to the positive and the other to the negative.    could be as simple as a clamp (plastic) holding the wires with bared ends to the metal bus bar

Also if you look at your meter on a good set of cells the voltage reads in the positive on the meter then the red test lead is the positive side. If it's a negative number then you have the wire the wrong way around
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#10
ok, i got this small group on my adjustable power pack, charging real slow @ 100ma.

Here's the number changes after 2 hours on, how is it looking? 



2 hours later



If I wait till it hits 1.8v, then move to the next group of 6 low voltage cells, then try to charge the whole pack again? Maybe I wont need any new cells at all? Just direct charge these two small groups, bringing them up to more equal voltage of the other cells.

Am I doing this right [Image: huh.png]  thanks a lot guys for any input.
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