Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Batrium v's (much!) cheaper alternative - Why?
#1
Hi

I am nearing the end of my build of a 14s60p pack for solar power storage. I have been doing some research into the topic of which BMS I should use. 

So - it seems that the Batrium solution is very popular with people here - but it's so expensive! Especially compared with some of the "all singing, all dancing" chinese alternatives like this one.....

https://www.lithiumbatterypcb.com/produc...2-2-2-2-2/

....which is less than $46  for a 14s, 60A unit.

Being a firm believer (usually!) in "you get what you pay for" - I'm struggling to understand what the main differences are between the two ends of the spectrum.

I would really appreciate it if some of the more experienced members on this forum could explain why the big price difference?

Many thanks............

P.S. I have tried to search for previous posts that might explain the main differences, but have been spectacularly unsuccessful!
BarryG
Not much in life is free these days - but Solar Energy is!
Reply
#2
There are many ppl here who use the bms you linked. Daromer uses it on one of his builds, for example. There's another thread about the software interface that has been redone from chinese to english listed in this section. https://secondlifestorage.com/showthread.php?tid=8100 At least I think this software is for this bms. I could be wrong on that.

Because this bms doesn't have an Official name, like Batrium, it's harder to spot in the forums. Wink
BarryG likes this post
Proceed with caution. Knowledge is Power! Literally! Cool 
Knowledge is Power; Absolute Knowledge is Absolutely Shocking!
Certified 18650 Cell Reclamation Technician

Please come join in general chit-chat and randomness at Discord Chat (channels: general, 3d-printing, linux&coding, 18650, humor, ...)
(this chat is not directly affiliated with SecondLifeStorage; VALID email req'd)
Reply
#3
Yes I can understand. There are several important differences between Batrium and the kind of BMSs that you link to. I have Batrium, so let me list a few - I'm sure you'll get more than my comments.

1) Batrium can balance *much larger packs* than most others. For example, my packs are 260ah and Batrium balances these without breaking a sweat (within 12hrs for minor balance). Batrium (Watchmon 4) is well suited up to 1000ah. And Watchmon 6 (just out or coming out) is several times more powerful. Here's a link showing balance power - https://www.batrium.com/pages/watchmon-comparison
2) Batrium is a chained pack management orientation - your not limited to 14s or 16s. I have 42packs (40kwh battery bank) and plan to add more. You can go up to 250 cell (pack) monitors for a single watchmon. In the linked one, you are probably limited to 14s or 16s - so if you have multiple batteries they cannot be managed by a single overview and cannot balance between them.
3) Batrium has *extensive* data/controls to monitor and
- report data on screen, to text file (which I parse to put into my database), thru direct real-time communication (its a bit complicated but others have done it)
- control external devices such as shunt-trip (to protect the battery), fans (cooling), or general external events
- provide several different balancing options - both brute force and more of light touch (auto-level for example) under certain conditions
- decent PC software rather than an android app. (I require computer rather than cell phone)
4) Batrium has integration with several types of batteries - not just 18650 but also Nissan Leaf (for example) and others. Will work any cell voltage in range (under 5v).

I'm not a Batrium salesperson - and i'm sure they would list 100 other advantages... but the ones above are key for my own operation.

I would characterize Batrium as a better choice the larger your battery bank grows. In my case I have 42 packs and in the process of adding 18 more for 1300ah (60kwh) battery bank... and the way Batrium is designed it really facilitates adding more and more packs with no hassle.
BarryG and 100kwh-hunter like this post
Reply
#4
for solar I recommend the chargery bms16 (less then 110 on ebay), I been using the bms8 (on my 4s 220ah lifepo4). With solar you need external contactors(relays) to stop the charging by disconnecting the solar panel. 

With a regular bms that uses mosfets, if they decide to stop accepting charge you get voltage surges(voltage surges are caused from the fact that mosfets leak voltage, controller reads a battery connected and will try to force a charge but mosfet wont accept amps). Voltage surges are very bad and destroy equipment, I lost many pumps fans from surges. You can try and set your solar controller bulk setting low enough that it nevers triggers the bms, except every once in a while it will stop the charge for whatever reason. I tried many different cheaper bms and even used overvoltage protection relays to disconnect panel when voltage got to high but they all failed, the overvoltage protection relay is too slow to disconnect, equipment is destroyed in the 1/2 second it takes to disconnect.

Chargery is very programmable with a good LCD screen. I been using it for 6 months and have been very happy with it. It has 1.2 amp balancing, audio alarms, 100amp shunt to track amps in/out. You have to supply your own contactors (I use 4 dollar automotive relays). Its not as cheap as a regular mosfet bms or as expensive as batrium but it does a very good job on a solar system. The size of your contactor is how much amps the system can handle.  

picture of chargery bms8, bms16 and bms24 are the same except bigger control box, not shown is the shunt and connecting wires.
BarryG likes this post
Reply
#5
One of my complaints above is that you need several BMS(s) if you want to manage multiple 14s (or 16s or 7s) strings... but a youtube guy I like used 6 of the Chinese BMSs on a single battery and his phone to manage his battery - here's a couple of youtubes on this from @DavidPoz

"Making a Lithium Battery Safer with BMS (Battery Management System)" https://youtu.be/TmqkE6KuHJc - this one is during the build

"DIY Smart Fortwo Battery build, Finale!" https://youtu.be/XGLs9-nIOjw - this one shows it in operation, some BMS shots near the end starting at 14:57 - give you a flavor of what multiple BMSs might look like
BarryG and Solardad like this post
Reply
#6
Just One thing. Batrium can do Up to 250packs. Thats alot Smile. One of My battery banks is 100kwh connected to One batrium.
BarryG and chuckp like this post
The Ultimate DIY Solar and build place
YouTube / Forum system setup / My webpage  Diy Tech & Repairs

Current: 10kW Mpp Hybrid | 4kW PIP4048 | 2x PCM60x | 83kWh LiFePo4 | 10kWh 14s 18650 |  66*260W Poly
Upcoming: 14S 18650~30kWh | Automatic trip breakers, and alot more
Reply
#7
Depending on all your needs and wants there are other choices in the price range of the Batrium.  Rec BMS and Orion for instance.  And then at a lower price Electrodacus is doing some interesting things, although it is a one man operation from what I see.  All of these have been very responsive to inquiries I have found...even Electrodacus.  That is important in my opinion.  I am looking at all of these systems for another application even though I have a lot of time invested in learning about the Batrium system.  But the Batrium system software seems to be the most extensive and feature rich.  Although that also can add to a lot of head scratching on how particular features work ....and it adds complexity that you may or may not need.
Reply


Who read this thread?
79 User(s) read this thread:
Jim-C (Today, 03:45 AM), LPG (10-12-2019, 03:18 PM), Jonisingt35r (10-16-2019, 10:18 AM), 7h0r (10-26-2019, 04:52 PM), mackoffgrid (10-24-2019, 10:01 PM), fpv1812 (11-10-2019, 07:41 PM), Regalo (10-15-2019, 07:08 PM), gpearce52 (10-29-2019, 07:04 AM), juanjo57 (10-13-2019, 07:09 AM), Doin it (10-16-2019, 07:59 PM), BobInHD (10-13-2019, 10:56 AM), 100kwh-hunter (10-23-2019, 05:13 PM), BarryG (10-14-2019, 01:16 PM), vivi0512 (10-21-2019, 10:22 AM), OffGridInTheCity (10-15-2019, 02:05 PM), kevinjaye (10-25-2019, 12:58 AM), thomasmay (10-28-2019, 02:54 PM), RikH (10-13-2019, 09:20 PM), poolizei (11-03-2019, 09:10 PM), Blackbusa59 (10-13-2019, 08:24 AM), Steved350 (10-16-2019, 04:21 AM), ptchernegovski (Today, 07:45 AM), mouse (11-05-2019, 08:36 PM), jones1039@yahoo.com (11-11-2019, 03:30 AM), vk2emp (10-28-2019, 10:48 AM), flint (10-25-2019, 02:50 AM), tonmily (10-20-2019, 04:38 AM), Victor8 (10-17-2019, 01:49 PM), w0ss (11-02-2019, 01:13 AM), Pilotfromdk (10-12-2019, 08:05 PM), xyoung347x (11-15-2019, 06:04 AM), papanyan (11-01-2019, 06:49 AM), BatteryMooch (10-13-2019, 06:10 AM), AT1411832 (10-17-2019, 09:33 PM), skytek (10-17-2019, 05:30 PM), Sleonard2649 (10-13-2019, 05:23 AM), James-w (10-28-2019, 10:43 AM), Cobra_Phil (10-29-2019, 01:37 PM), ajw22 (10-13-2019, 12:18 AM), Solardad (10-18-2019, 07:17 PM), Generic (10-15-2019, 04:16 AM), drchips (10-13-2019, 01:21 AM), Charly144 (10-14-2019, 03:33 PM), Nibor (11-08-2019, 06:53 PM), CarelHassink (10-12-2019, 09:20 PM), Oz18650 (10-14-2019, 05:18 AM), ChrisD5710 (10-13-2019, 02:19 PM), Jon (10-12-2019, 04:35 PM), Geek (10-13-2019, 10:59 PM), KtB (10-30-2019, 05:11 PM), Hanssing (10-13-2019, 06:01 AM), watts-on (10-13-2019, 11:07 AM), wim (10-13-2019, 03:09 PM), jdeadman (10-13-2019, 04:09 PM), PAF (10-13-2019, 07:17 AM), Korishan (10-13-2019, 01:05 PM), Majorphill (10-12-2019, 01:27 PM), mike (10-13-2019, 10:55 AM), HughF (10-13-2019, 07:33 PM), gpn (10-12-2019, 02:34 PM), Headrc (10-13-2019, 04:16 AM), rherman (11-06-2019, 07:06 PM), ibikunle (10-14-2019, 09:34 AM), Wolf (10-12-2019, 12:03 PM), Beholder (10-12-2019, 10:24 PM), Chass90 (11-02-2019, 11:08 AM), hermitdave (10-22-2019, 08:56 AM), emuland-metroman (10-12-2019, 06:24 PM), chuckp (10-13-2019, 01:05 AM), Jim Jr. (10-12-2019, 03:55 PM), Riplash (10-12-2019, 04:04 PM), Walde (10-15-2019, 04:13 PM), cadric (10-20-2019, 04:09 PM), farmerjohn (10-31-2019, 11:42 PM), Zvonko000 (10-13-2019, 06:53 PM), Ibiza (10-24-2019, 11:43 AM), Redpacket (10-13-2019, 05:50 AM), jonyjoe505 (10-12-2019, 05:38 PM), daromer (10-13-2019, 06:37 AM)

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)