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10kW Hybrid Inverters
#1
Morning all,

I have 3 phase power at home and I'm looking at buying the MPP 10k hybrid inverter as I'm building a 14s100p to get started.

Can anyone recommend any alternative 10k hybrid 3 phase inverters I should look at as well before I buy it?

Cheers everyone,

Darren
Follow my Powerwall journey here: 
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjXT8KJnEzo-DJHFRR1W8jg

Building the following:
20kWh Powerwall
8kW Solar
30kW Heating system
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#2
Victron system. It cost 3x the amount but you will save in that money over time.

The MPP hybrid works but there are some disadvantages

1. Its only 1 year warrant
2. Its idle consumption is 7kWh per day
3. It is really max 3.3kW per phase. Over that and it will shut down
4. No support what so everand the communitication to it sucks


It have one big advantage
1. Its cheap as hell


You can check my system out if you want. I run it here at home and have several videos about it. And it have worked quite good but I have to shut it down during the winter becuae i max get 2kWh solar worst winter days comparing to summer when i get 100kWh per day...
The Ultimate DIY Solar and build place
YouTube / Forum system setup / My webpage  Diy Tech & Repairs

Current: 10kW Mpp Hybrid | 4kW PIP4048 | 2x PCM60x | 100kWh LiFePo4 | 20kWh 14s 18650 |  66*260W Poly | ABB S3 and S5 Trip breakers
Upcoming: 14S 18650~30kWh
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#3
Morning Daniel, check your email :-D

7kWh yeah that's a hell of a lot and yep, if your only producing 2kWh per day in the winter, I can see the problem, the inverter is costing you money. I'm just a couple of hours away from you and I'll be installing a much smaller solar array than yours so for me, the problem will be even worse sadly.

Which Victron product are you looking at and what's its idle consumption?

Cheers

Darren
Follow my Powerwall journey here: 
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjXT8KJnEzo-DJHFRR1W8jg

Building the following:
20kWh Powerwall
8kW Solar
30kW Heating system
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#4
Following! Smile
Ibiza likes this post
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#5
Cause i am in the Same problem lets face some Facts.

Price: MPP Hybrid 2500$ = 2250 Euro

included shipping to Germany, 3 Phase Inverter

Price: Same Setup Victron: In total 8755 Euro

3x Victron Energy MultiPlus-II 48/5000/70-50
1x Victron Color Control GX
2x Victron Lynx Distributor
3x Victron SmartSolar MPPT 250/100-Tr

got today a offer by greenakku.de


Those 2 Setups will be same idea of :

Charging batteries if big enough with 200A
Power the home with if needed 10 kw


Lets to some Math:

8755 -2250 = 6505 Euro Victron costs more.

Loosing power in Idle:

Victron = 18 Watt per Inverter = 3x 18 Watt = 1.3 kw lost in 24 hours = 474,4 kw in 1 year
MPP = 190 Watt = 190 x 24 = 4,56 kw lost in 24 hours = 1664,4 kw in 1 year

Victron info from : https://www.victronenergy.de/upload/docu...ger-DE.pdf
MPP i got the info from MPPsolar itself

MPP is loosing 3.2 kw more then Victron.

In Germany if i send not used Watt used by house into the grid i get 12 Cent with my old system but need to pay 8 Cent per kw i use from my own System.

Victron would cost me:
474,4 * 0,08 = 37,92 Euro per year

MPP would cost me
1664,4 * 0,08 = 133,15 Euro per year

Summary:
MPP setup 2250 Euro in total and loosing money by Idle 133,15 per year
Victron setup 8755 Euro in total and loosing money by Idle 37,92 per year

The Victron will safe me per year roughly per year 100 Euro cause idle consumtion is less.
But the initial setup difference would need more then 60 Years to be at the same price as the MPP has.

Important Thing.

Victron 5 years warranty and ppl in the internet use them alot longer and are happy
EU Company and maybe higher standarts then Chinese company.

MPP 1 year warranty. Found ppl who are happy with this modell.

My thaughts after this are i try the MPP cause until i safe money i guess i am dead. So lets try some chinese MPP
The Kilowatt Challenge likes this post
Learning in progress
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#6
Mpp is 240w Idle.
Its also less efficienct conversion in use
Its also only 1 year warranty and you have to pay for shopping
Its also maaaaax 10kw....



Victron is more efficienct
Victron have proper guarantee
Victeon is nominal its wattage and easy do 2x startup current
Victron is also more stable.


I run mpp. I also had to pay another 1000eur to fix it after 1 year.....

You forgot many factors in your Price. Om pretty sure victron repays within 10 years of even 5. First of all consumption is easy 2* saved with victron över time than your calculated.

Also note that you need those 7kwh extra per Day just in solar... So in Winter you need plenty of extra panels to cover it. Dont forget that cost Wink


I would easily go victron IF i knew better and had the money.
100kwh-hunter and The Kilowatt Challenge like this post
The Ultimate DIY Solar and build place
YouTube / Forum system setup / My webpage  Diy Tech & Repairs

Current: 10kW Mpp Hybrid | 4kW PIP4048 | 2x PCM60x | 100kWh LiFePo4 | 20kWh 14s 18650 |  66*260W Poly | ABB S3 and S5 Trip breakers
Upcoming: 14S 18650~30kWh
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#7
This truly is the battle of the giants... I totally get both arguments and each has their own merits. It's really interesting when you calculate the actual extra costs again on both sides... I'd like to think that this would be an easy decision but it really isn't.

I have to say at the moment, for me, at the very beginning of the project, I can't afford the extra cost of the Victron and I know I would need to buy more panels to offset the extra losses, but I don't have the space either lol... At this early stage, again for me, it's the MPP but I'll definitely look to see if theres any second hand Victron kit before I say goodbye to my money ;-)
Follow my Powerwall journey here: 
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjXT8KJnEzo-DJHFRR1W8jg

Building the following:
20kWh Powerwall
8kW Solar
30kW Heating system
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#8
I bought 10 extra panels.... But it doesnt even get Close during Winter to offseet
Yes mpp is 1 unit comparing and its cheap initially but beware that it is Short term sollution all Day Long.

There is also more alternativets in the middle
caosmen and The Kilowatt Challenge like this post
The Ultimate DIY Solar and build place
YouTube / Forum system setup / My webpage  Diy Tech & Repairs

Current: 10kW Mpp Hybrid | 4kW PIP4048 | 2x PCM60x | 100kWh LiFePo4 | 20kWh 14s 18650 |  66*260W Poly | ABB S3 and S5 Trip breakers
Upcoming: 14S 18650~30kWh
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#9
Yeah you're right Daniel, maybe we should try and find something in the middle...
Follow my Powerwall journey here: 
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjXT8KJnEzo-DJHFRR1W8jg

Building the following:
20kWh Powerwall
8kW Solar
30kW Heating system
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#10
After Daniels post that he had to pay 1000 Euro again after 1 year i invested today again alot of time and brain power.


Yesterday i just compared the MPPI 10 kw with Victron with the "SAME" setup.

But do i need 10 kw in my house ?

My Stats:

Last year i used 12000 kw to run my house. I know my house need just 800 Watts in IDLE Modus.
My house is heated by electricity too and this one use 2.8 kwh when running.

So bestcase would be 3.6 kwh in Winter. If cooking etc it will be more , but thats the normal.

So what do i need again based on that in Victron.

I phoned today again with greenakku.de

Thats the plan right now:
5 kwp connected to

1xVictron Energy MultiPlus-II 48/5000/70-50 connected with 
1x SmartSolar MPPT 250/100

plus 5 kwp conntected to 
1x SmartSolar MPPT 250/100

additional i need
Victron Interface MK3-USB
Venus GX
Costs:
1x -II 48/5000/70-50 = 1720 Euro
2x SmartSolar MPPT 250/100 = 910 *2 = 1820 Euro
Victron Interface MK3-USB = 70 Euro

Venus GX = 300 Euro
In Total 3910 Euro , i get 19 % back = 3285 Euro

MPPI would be 2250 Euro

So with this small setup but more efficient to my home i just would pay 50 % more for Victron then MPPI.

Daniels post made me a bad night yesterday since we all pay alot of money and i dont wanna pay after 1 year again 1000 Euro.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge Daniel and after this i think i am happy to invested again today for learning and i will start with this setup.
The Kilowatt Challenge and camthecam like this post
Learning in progress
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