Grounding solar panels with PIP5048-GK

I just read in the manual that you may not ground solar panels connected to the PIP. Is that right or am I missing something?

From the manual:

WARNING:
Because this inverter is non isolated, are accepted: single crystalline, poly crystalline with class
A rated and CIGS modules. To avoid any malfunctions, do not connect any PV modules with possible current
leakage to the inverter. For example, grounded PV modules will cause current leakage to the inverter. When
using CIGS modules, please be sure NO grounding connection.
CAUTION:
Its requested to use PV junction box with surge protec tion. Otherwise, it will cause damage on
inverter when lightning occurs on PV modules.


Thanks again for the help in advance.

I remember reading that some very early (decades ago?) installations had the negative terminal of the solar panel (array) tied to ground. The manual is probably talking about that.
I'm pretty sure grounding the frames of the PV array is not a problem, in fact required for a safe installation.

I would think that it means don't take the Grounded leg (weather Pos or Neg) of the Panel and ground it to the inverter. You would still ground the panels to Ground "at" the panel installation, though. But you wouldn't tie that grounding to the house ground. So you would need to install a separate ground rod for the panels.
If ground level installation, each strip of panels on the rack should be grounded each. Meaning if you had 10 panels, for example, and 5 on one installation rack, and 5 on the other, then you'd need 2 ground rods. But these two ground rods could be bonded together.
If roof mount installation, then the panel ground rods would probably need to be on the opposite side of the house of the house's ground rod. As the inverter "is" still grounded on the AC side of things. However, this I am not fully sure of.

Maybe you could contact Customer Service and ask them and then let us know what they say. This would help many others in the future with their installations, including mine. I hadn't thought about the grounding issue. Though I haven't gotten to that stage myself.

What could happen when I don't ground the Panels? Nothing when everything is good but if a failure occurs an electric shock?

Korishan said:

I would think that it means don't take the Grounded leg (weather Pos or Neg) of the Panel and ground it to the inverter. You would still ground the panels to Ground "at" the panel installation, though. But you wouldn't tie that grounding to the house ground. So you would need to install a separate ground rod for the panels.
If ground level installation, each strip of panels on the rack should be grounded each. Meaning if you had 10 panels, for example, and 5 on one installation rack, and 5 on the other, then you'd need 2 ground rods. But these two ground rods could be bonded together.
If roof mount installation, then the panel ground rods would probably need to be on the opposite side of the house of the house's ground rod. As the inverter "is" still grounded on the AC side of things. However, this I am not fully sure of.

Maybe you could contact Customer Service and ask them and then let us know what they say. This would help many others in the future with their installations, including mine. I hadn't thought about the grounding issue. Though I haven't gotten to that stage myself.

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>What could happen when I don't ground the Panels? Nothing when everything is good but if a failure occurs an electric shock?
Panels and the metal framework to which they are attached must be bonded-grounded. Very dangerous to skip this.

I have read a great deal about 'grounding' and the info is all over the place. Some articles suggest that multiple grounding rods can actually cause current in the ground between them that is not so safe... which is why its better to tie into the main house ground... but I don't say this with any authority.

What I can say with authority is that my PV array (and metal framework) per city code (Southern OR) and electrician that worked on it - is tied into house ground instead of separate grounding rod. And don't forget the lightning arrestors - they seem like a very sane precaution as well. I've spent $100(s) on them so I certainly hope so

The Reliable converter (cheap ones) with US 120v (single phase) outputwarn against connecting their inverter to house ground - I presume because of some kind of electronics design. On one of them I ignored their warning and connected it to house ground and it promptly 'quit working'. So there may be some electrical design? that doesn't like house ground connected? My AIMS inverter does not have this problem.

I'll be interested to hear what you ultimately do or find out.

The inverter itself has a connection to house ground. Just unsure what to do with the panels?

In some areas you need to ground the alu casing of the panels by regulation. ;Check that up if so is the case.

Maniac_Powerwall said:

The inverter itself has a connection to house ground. Just unsure what to do with the panels?

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Here's my DIY ground array using universal strut. Used grounding lugs w/self-taping screws to weave the grounding wire from panel to panel and strut to strut so panels are bonded to each other and the universal struts they are attached to. The universal struts are bonded to the 2" steel framework. The wire is 6awg - approved in my jurisdiction - and tied in with regular house ground.

Ah perfect. I need to check with my electrician. Not very much knowledge about house electric so far.

I got an Answer from MPP Solar. Panels frames can be grounded. They also suggest that. But there are panels wich have positive connection to ground. Those are not suitable with the PIP.

Exactly. As Long as the panel isnt grounded via its Power Line its fine. Most of Them Arent so. Just stick to local regulations then Egarding grounding

ajw22 said:

I remember reading that some very early (decades ago?) installations had the negative terminal of the solar panel (array) tied to ground. The manual is probably talking about that.
I'm pretty sure grounding the frames of the PV array is not a problem, in fact required for a safe installation.

Click to expand...

You are quite correct about grounding the PV frames. They are indeed lightning rods of large scale. Better to send the awesome amount of power from a lightning bolt directly to ground than anywhere else... Breakers and lightning arrestors can and do fail. Ive been 100% off grid for 18 years and have built many systems. Be safe out there. The only thing worse than losing everything to a fire is going with it.

Windmilljay said:

You are quite correct about grounding the PV frames. They are indeed lightning rods of large scale. Better to send the awesome amount of power from a lightning bolt directly to ground than anywhere else... Breakers and lightning arrestors can and do fail. Ive been 100% off grid for 18 years and have built many systems. Be safe out there. The only thing worse than losing everything to a fire is going with it.

Click to expand...

I also have a 5048GK and am using CIG panels.
I have been running them ungrounded due to the warning in the manual (both frame and leads are ungrounded).
The panels are out of reach from anyone and isolated from metal but I still am concerned with the ungrounded frames.
Has there been any definitive answer here? I contacted MPPSolar and they simply stated what is in the manual not clearing up if frame grounding vs lead grounding makes a difference. I also cannot find any information if the GE CIGS modules have an internally grounded lead (I have read some modules may have the the negative lead bonded to the frame for grounding, I guess I can test that pretty simple with one of my spare panel).

Thanks!

Lynoise said:

I also have a 5048GK and am using CIG panels.
I have been running them ungrounded due to the warning in the manual (both frame and leads are ungrounded).
The panels are out of reach from anyone and isolated from metal but I still am concerned with the ungrounded frames.
Has there been any definitive answer here? I contacted MPPSolar and they simply stated what is in the manual not clearing up if frame grounding vs lead grounding makes a difference. I also cannot find any information if the GE CIGS modules have an internally grounded lead (I have read some modules may have the the negative lead bonded to the frame for grounding, I guess I can test that pretty simple with one of my spare panel).

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Other then on the AC-side, where Neutral is bonded to Ground, the DC-side of a solar system is always isolated. Frames of panels do not have any connection to either Plus or Minus. So the frames should always be grounded to avoid lightning into frames entering the power circuit. Surge protection devices are bonding the power lines to Ground only temporarily, even in case of total destruction of the Varistor element through a lethal hit. In that case, a bridge inside the protector will basically vaporize and open the connection to Ground again. Connecting Ground of frames to house grounding, can result into a surge travelling to the electric devices via the cabling, depending where you connected to Ground and where your grounding rod of the house is. It will always be better to use a separate ground rod directly at the mounting position to direct the surge straight into ground.
Frame grounding is same as installing a lightning spear on the roof gable. It has nothing to do with the rest of the house installations.

Those statements of not grounding panels, refer to not bond Ground to Plus or Minus power line only. Bad translations from Chinese into English might cause the confusion.

RolandW said:

Other then on the AC-side, where Neutral is bonded to Ground, the DC-side of a solar system is always isolated. Frames of panels do not have any connection to either Plus or Minus. So the frames should always be grounded to avoid lightning into frames entering the power circuit. Surge protection devices are bonding the power lines to Ground only temporarily, even in case of total destruction of the Varistor element through a lethal hit. In that case, a bridge inside the protector will basically vaporize and open the connection to Ground again. Connecting Ground of frames to house grounding, can result into a surge travelling to the electric devices via the cabling, depending where you connected to Ground and where your grounding rod of the house is. It will always be better to use a separate ground rod directly at the mounting position to direct the surge straight into ground.
Frame grounding is same as installing a lightning spear on the roof gable. It has nothing to do with the rest of the house installations.

Those statements of not grounding panels, refer to not bond Ground to Plus or Minus power line only. Bad translations from Chinese into English might cause the confusion.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the great explanation! Very helpful. I would think you are right about the bad translation in the manual.
I am new here (1st post) but will likely be popping up every so often as I continue to build out and expand my solar system. I also dabble in small wind power but that is not really all that useful where I live so it is just for fun