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Tracer4210AN + Nissan Leaf bank Charging
#1
Hi guys,

I have a Tracer4210AN and recently got my hands on some Nissan Leaf G1 batteries configure as a 24v Battery. 

From what I could research those batteries must be a charge to 4.1 max and discharge to 3.65 so I'm using that range. The thing is I have never use lithium before as I was using AGM and that's pretty straight forward, now I have to deal with all the parameters designed for lead-acid on a lithium battery.

I read some forums and watch some youtube videos and I ended up with a configuration. The problem is that I cant get the battery to charge to more than 23.8, don't know if my settings are bad (probably). Need help.

Some sources say never float lithium others say it's ok, if so how do I effectively disable float. I would like to read your take on that.


Note: i know the battery can hold more charge, I did charge them from the grid and they went to 24.4 and hold the charge for a while.


MY Tracer4210AN config:

BatType: 0
BatCap: 130
TempComp: 0
OVCutOff: 25.00
ChargLmt: 24.50
OVRcv: 24.12
EquilV: 24.49
RaisV: 24.49
FloCharg: 24.48
RaisRcv: 23.50
LVRcv: 22.00
WarnRcv: 22.00
LVWarn: 21.60
LVCutOff: 21.60
DischaLmt: 21.60
RatedLv: 1
EquilDur: 0
RaisDur: 10
BatDisch: 30
BatCharg: 100
ChargMode: 0

Thanks

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#2
I don't have the Tracer4210AN, but quickly browsed the manual.

Pretty sure the issue is the low "Boost charge" settings.  With your current settings, the battery only get re-charged when it falls below 23.50v (3.91v), and only re-charged for max 10min at that!
Set "Boost Reconnect Charging Voltage" to 24.45V.  This ensures that the battery gets re-charged as soon as it falls below 4.075v/cell.  Also, set "Boost Duration" to whatever is the longest period you can enter.
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#3
Also check for voltage drop between controller and battery. I notice voltage drop issues when charging lithium both li-ion and lifepo4. Like mention in the previous post you might have to adjust the bulk(boost) voltage higher.

If your aiming for 24.6 volts, and you got voltage drop, your going to end up at 24 volts or less. 

As an example of how bad voltage drop can be, on my 4s lifepo4 system (max 14.6 volts), I have the bulk setting at 15.5 volts just to reach 14.6 volts, anything less and I never get a full charge. If I set to 14.6 volts as recommended, it won't charge the battery at more then 2 amps, when the solar is capable of 12 amps charge rate. The bulk has to be high enough to quickly charge the battery while the sun is out.

I have a fully programmable bms (chargery bms8) I use that to disconnect the panel when battery is full. I only use the controller to quickly charge the battery to the ballpark voltage I want. If you notice your getting low performance from your solar system, its probably because the bulk setting is too low, the closer the bulk setting voltage is to the battery actual voltage, the less amps the battery receives.
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#4
(01-07-2020, 08:53 PM)ajw22 Wrote: I don't have the Tracer4210AN, but quickly browsed the manual.

Pretty sure the issue is the low "Boost charge" settings.  With your current settings, the battery only get re-charged when it falls below 23.50v (3.91v), and only re-charged for max 10min at that!
Set "Boost Reconnect Charging Voltage" to 24.45V.  This ensures that the battery gets re-charged as soon as it falls below 4.075v/cell.  Also, set "Boost Duration" to whatever is the longest period you can enter.

looks like my issue was in that direction, I changed the boost voltage to 24.6 and the duration to 120min I manage to charge the battery to 24.4 I haven't change the "Boost Reconnect Charging Voltage" but will do.

Thanks for your advice.

What do you think about the float setting?


(01-08-2020, 06:37 AM)jonyjoe505 Wrote: Also check for voltage drop between controller and battery. I notice voltage drop issues when charging lithium both li-ion and lifepo4. Like mention in the previous post you might have to adjust the bulk(boost) voltage higher.

If your aiming for 24.6 volts, and you got voltage drop, your going to end up at 24 volts or less. 

As an example of how bad voltage drop can be, on my 4s lifepo4 system (max 14.6 volts), I have the bulk setting at 15.5 volts just to reach 14.6 volts, anything less and I never get a full charge. If I set to 14.6 volts as recommended, it won't charge the battery at more then 2 amps, when the solar is capable of 12 amps charge rate. The bulk has to be high enough to quickly charge the battery while the sun is out.

I have a fully programmable bms (chargery bms8) I use that to disconnect the panel when battery is full. I only use the controller to quickly charge the battery to the ballpark voltage I want. If you notice your getting low performance from your solar system, its probably because the bulk setting is too low, the closer the bulk setting voltage is to the battery actual voltage, the less amps the battery receives.

Did check and there is no voltage drop, the cables are tight and close to the charge controllers.

 The chargery BMS is on my list, im unable to buy it right now, i basically live in a poor country and all my money went to the panels, battery, inverter, etc. as some people say the leaf modules are great at keeping them self balance and it's true. i have done discharge test at 53amps dc and they stay pretty close together. but I will buy a BMS anyways as soon as I can.

Thanks for your insight.
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#5
(01-08-2020, 12:43 PM)nox Wrote:
What do you think about the float setting?

With lithium batteries, you can set all charge voltages (Boost, Float & Equalization) to the same voltage.  Those settings are really just for Lead-Acid batteries.

Get a BMS as soon as possible!  And store all lithium batteries in a fire-safe location.
Modular PowerShelf using 3D printed packs.  60kWh and growing.
https://secondlifestorage.com/showthread.php?tid=6458
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#6
(01-07-2020, 02:29 PM)nox Wrote:
Where did this nice (software based) screen come from  (e.g. Windows or Linux or Phone?) and would you mind sharing the hookup details?.
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#7
(01-08-2020, 03:58 PM)OffGridInTheCity Wrote:
(01-07-2020, 02:29 PM)nox Wrote:
Where did this nice (software based) screen come from  (e.g. Windows or Linux or Phone?) and would you mind sharing the hookup details?.


Sure.

Here is my battery Set up:
https://secondlifestorage.com/showthread.php?tid=8425



The software is from epsolar ( official app for windows) i just use this for changing the config but im working on my own dash. i plan to publish a guide on how to do it.
here are some screenshots of what i have right now:

Right now my batteries have are done charging so the current is not been displayed.
I plan to add more stuff, such a load control, load graph, current configuration, and a page to update the configuration 


This is built on a Raspberry Pi 3 using 

MySql
https://github.com/toggio/PhpEpsolarTracer
https://github.com/kasbert/epsolar-tracer/tree/master/xr_usb_serial_common-1a

Node-Red
And probably more stuff that i cant remember





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#8
If you set the float low enough, the battery will be charge at 1 amp or less, which is no big deal for a large battery on solar. I have float set on my lifepo4 to just keep it topped off at 1 amp.

Since you don't have a bms right now, I recommend a tenergy 6s lipo checker (cost about 12 dollars), connects to the balance connecter. it sounds an alarm if the voltage goes above 4.22 volts or below 3 volts. You got to be near to hear it, but its better then nothing. I use them on all my small lithium packs. You have to have a way of measuring the cell balance in realtime, all the time. 

I also recommend an overvoltage protection relay ( 5 dollars) , this will disconnect your panel if the voltage goes too high. I wouldn't trust the solar controller not to fail and overcharge the battery. The protection relay is like a deadmans switch. 

The chargery bms8 is very good, I been using it on my 220ah lifepo4 for the past year, works excellent with solar. I tried cheaper BMS but none work well with solar.

tenergy lipo checker


overvoltage protection relay
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#9
(01-09-2020, 03:36 AM)jonyjoe505 Wrote: If you set the float low enough, the battery will be charge at 1 amp or less, which is no big deal for a large battery on solar. I have float set on my lifepo4 to just keep it topped off at 1 amp.

Since you don't have a bms right now, I recommend a tenergy 6s lipo checker (cost about 12 dollars), connects to the balance connecter. it sounds an alarm if the voltage goes above 4.22 volts or below 3 volts. You got to be near to hear it, but its better then nothing. I use them on all my small lithium packs. You have to have a way of measuring the cell balance in realtime, all the time. 

I also recommend an overvoltage protection relay ( 5 dollars) , this will disconnect your panel if the voltage goes too high. I wouldn't trust the solar controller not to fail and overcharge the battery. The protection relay is like a deadmans switch. 

The chargery bms8 is very good, I been using it on my 220ah lifepo4 for the past year, works excellent with solar. I tried cheaper BMS but none work well with solar.

tenergy lipo checker


overvoltage protection relay


Thanks Ill check it out.
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#10
(01-07-2020, 02:29 PM)nox Wrote: From what I could research those batteries must be a charge to 4.1 max and discharge to 3.65 so I'm using that range. The thing is I have never use lithium before as I was using AGM and that's pretty straight forward, now I have to deal with all the parameters designed for lead-acid on a lithium battery.

3.65V is the nominal for Leaf cells. You can discharge lower than that, see the graph here: https://pushevs.com/2018/01/29/2018-nissan-leaf-battery-real-specs/

They're not like Lead acid where you can only use 50% of the capacity. However, you will get enhanced lifespan if you only charge between 25% and 75% of the rated voltage range.
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