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ABB SACE S5 300a max settings
#1
Folks,

I'm adding an ABB SACE S5 400a shunt-trip - for eventual hookup to Batrium.    I want to make sure I set it to the 'max'.    You'll notice at the bottom there is lm MIN - MAX and lth MIN-MAX....

Note: This is a 300a picture but I bought a 400a 2 pole replacement as 300a is not enough. But the 400a looks the same - e.g. S5.

If I understand it correctly, the lm is a formula for seconds to trip?  and lth looks like max amps.  I want 300a + 0.5-1sec'ish delay - so if set both of these to MAX to get 300a with longest time delay I'm guessing I'll be operating at 300a at 1 second or so.    

Can someone explain or just confirm that setting these both to MAX will indeed be in the relm of 300amps @ 1sec 'kind of thing'.  I don't care about 0.5secs vs 1sec (i.e. I don't need it to be super sensitive) but I do care about 5+ secs (enough to start a fire)...  so I don't want to shoot myself in the foot for basic ignorance on how this works Smile

Thanks in advance
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#2
@LithiumSolar just did a youtube on fusing - discussing "Interrupting Capacity".   In other words, how much current can a fuse handle before the fuse itself melts together and becomes useless.    He pointed out that DIY powerwall packs have *massive* amp potential if shorted.

In my own case I have 14s110p with fuse wires.  I believe my fuse wires will blow between 10-20a - so let's say 20a.   So I'm thinking a 14s110p battery will have 110p * 20a = 2,200a @ v48v in a dead short  (e.g. before fuse wires melt and reduce amps).  

I have 6 of these - so 6 * 2,200a = 13,200a dead short potential for my overall battery and I have an ABB SACE S5 400a whole battery breaker/shunt-trip and I'm trying to figure out the "Interrupting Capacity" for it.   I found this IC Info in some SACE docs which I believe apply to SACE Sx breakers...



I've circled in red the S5 info which might indicate 20,000a up to 100,000a but I don't know what N H and L mean.  

Does someone know what the max "Interrupting Capacity" for an ABB SACE S5 400a shut-trip is?
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#3
Probably not helpful for your specific question, but just so you know...
A fuse that takes 1 second to break at 20A, could let through 40A for 100msecs before breaking. Or even 80A, but for just 20ms before breaking. And so on.
Similar principle with many types of breakers based on thermal trips.
So it you look at the msec level, instant current during a dead short is likely higher. Likely depends more on the battery capability (IR) and overall resistance than fuses.

For a nice graph:
http://thusithablog.blogspot.com/p/fuses.html

I have triple safety on each of my batteries: 1. BMS (30A trip), 2. Fuse (~33A melt), 3. Breaker (~35A trip).
Modular PowerShelf using 3D printed packs.  60kWh and growing.
https://secondlifestorage.com/showthread.php?tid=6458
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#4
(04-06-2020, 12:36 AM)ajw22 Wrote: Probably not helpful for your specific question, but just so you know...
A fuse that takes 1 second to break at 20A, could let through 40A for 100msecs before breaking.  Or even 80A, but for just 20ms before breaking.  And so on.
Similar principle with many types of breakers based on thermal trips.
So it you look at the msec level, instant current during a dead short is likely higher.  Likely depends more on the battery capability (IR) and overall resistance than fuses.

For a nice graph:
http://thusithablog.blogspot.com/p/fuses.html

I have triple safety on each of my batteries: 1. BMS (30A trip), 2. Fuse (~33A melt), 3. Breaker (~35A trip).
Good point, thank you!   Following @LithiumSolar's youtube logic - he demonstrated that some common cells (of which I have in my bank) seem to top out at 35-40a.   So 40a * 110cells = 4400a * 6batteries = 26,400a.   I'm hoping that the ABB SACE S5 numbers are higher than - e.g. such as 50ka = 50,0000a - but their documentation is so difficult to figure out.
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#5
I found the IC rating on the ABB itself (Duh!).   500VDC  35,000A  Smile
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#6
Yeah the S5 is pretty neat in that sense and will easily cope with most powerwalls. Theres a reason i have recommended it Tongue
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Current: 10kW Mpp Hybrid | 4kW PIP4048 | 2x PCM60x | 100kWh LiFePo4 | 20kWh 14s 18650 |  66*260W Poly | ABB S3 and S5 Trip breakers
Upcoming: 14S 18650~30kWh
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#7
I don't have the higher end models that have adjustability... I am too a bit curious about how it might apply to our application.  One thing I did learn is that these are often used in motor starter / motor protection applications which I found interesting 

I have a 200 amp S3B with a 24v shunt trip installed... good for about 50,000 amp IC

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