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Help identifying Battery
#11
@gauss163 top power tool makers only use Samsungs and Sony Vs, sometimes sanyos (older versions of batteries). I have never seen LGs in Milwaukee, DeWalt, Makita, Bosch. If they exist they are in pretty limited number. That does not mean LGs are not good.

Safety is fine as long as you respect the specs of the battery.
Fakes are another matter (like some unstable liitokalas).
The batteries in the current topic are not fakes, are just a smaller brand.

I found ProsPowers in DeWalt clones (made in Czech Republic which are actually pretty good for precision use and very cheap), Sterns and in some low-tier B&D (Black and Decker) sold in large shops.
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#12
(07-29-2020, 08:32 AM)Overmind Wrote:  top power tool makers only use Samsungs and Sony Vs, sometimes sanyos (older versions of batteries).  I have never seen LGs in Milwaukee, DeWalt, Makita, Bosch. If they exist they are in pretty limited number. That does not mean LGs are not good.

Why do you think someone would claim that means LGs are not good?  Rather, the point I made above is simply that reputable manufacturers of Li-ion powered devices use only top-tier cells/packs. To refute that claim you'd need to find lower tier cells in a device by a reputable manufacturer. 

(07-29-2020, 08:32 AM)Overmind Wrote: The batteries in the current topic are not fakes, are just a smaller brand.

In (American) English, such third-party (aftermarket) packs are usually called clones or fakes or counterfeits. It seems you have your own related definition of "smaller brand" - possibly meaning something like "better quality clone". But I see no evidence above indicating why anyone should believe that Prospower is better quality among clones. Without any specific information indicating otherwise, generally clones should be regarded to be of lower-quality and higher safety risk than top-tier brands. To properly vet such lower-tier manufacturers typically requires access to (proprietary) information not available to end users (usually only provided to business partners).
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#13
Observations in general do not support implicitly labeling as lower-quality any cells not coming from the top manufacturers.

There are plenty of small Chinese companies that have their batteries in laptop OEMs and they worked fine, in fact they were good for years, comparable to any Sony/Sanyo/Samsung or LG found in laptops. I ripped-off quite a few hundred batteries myself and non-top brands were not below the general average. Some I still use today as repurposed (mostly Chinese-company made but also a few Canadian ones). My logic is that if they are there they are good enough to be there. If in the case of power tools, power tool clones may afford to use lower quality due to the lower requirements of the tool, I strongly doubt OEMs like Lenovo will use junk since batteries die fast as it is with original cells inside. Samsung 22Fs and LGs come at the top fastest dead batteries in the case of laptops, as far as my own personal stats and a few other's go.

So if you don'y like them, feel free to donate them. I'm sure many forum members can use them for many things.
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#14
^^^ But you have not given any evidence at all to support your claims that some lower-tier cells (in clones) are as good as top-tier cells. In particular, you have not given examples of any reputable companies who employ such lower-tier cells. That they seemed to work well for one person implies very little.
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#15
Saying something is not good it's an accusation. It's accusations that must be proven so that part falls on you.
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#16
Again, that's not what was said. Let's review:

You claimed in post #2 that the cells in the OP's knockoff pack "should be of good quality and equivalent of any other good cells".

I asked why you believe that, since cells from non-top-tier manufacturers may be lower quality and higher safety risks.

None of your subsequent posts provide any evidence to support your above claim,

In the end, it seems that you believe it should be my responsibility to refute your unfounded claim.

But that's not a wise method to evaluate matters of safety and quality. If you assume by default that non-top-tier cells are safe and good quality then this will quickly prove problematic, since there are many well-known counterexamples (e.g. junk 10000mAh cells with thousands of rave reviews on eBay, exploding "hoverboard" packs, etc).

I think we should strive to be much more responsible when making such recommendations, because when they are wrong they could lead to much higher risks of injury.
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#17
The claim is not unfounded since I had such cells and was able to test them.

The risk of injury is identical to any of the Samsung, LG or top cells risk of the same chemistry.
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#18
^^^ That a few cells seemed fine to you implies very little in the grand scheme of things. Generally lower-tier manufacturers suffer numerous deficiencies vs. top-tier.

For example, lower-tier companies may lack access to various (highly proprietary) chemistry and design enhancements that make the cells safer (and better performing).  Nor do they have the funds to support R&D staff to develop their own enhancements.

They may also lack the funds to properly maintain adequate "clean room" environments to ensure that contaminants are not introduced during manufacture (a leading cause of internal shorts). Due to severe price competition in lower tiers, they may cut corners during QC, which leads to a higher chance of unhealthy and unsafe cells making it into the marketplace. 

Many things can go wrong during the manufacture of Li-ion cells that can lead to serious safety risks. Indeed, the process is complex enough that even the top-tier manufacturers err from time-to-time, as recent severe problems during the manufacture of Samsung Galaxy Note 7 cells highlight. These were due to improper pouch size, which caused corner pinches leading to internal shorts, and also due to ultrasonic tab welding burrs (and lack of insulating tape) that led to separator piercing and internal shorts. The odds of such mistakes greatly increase for cells from lower-tier manufacturers - who typically lack the funds, knowledge, and experience to avoid such mistakes.

Not to mention that higher-tier companies have a reputation to uphold, so they will go to much greater efforts to remedy any problems (e.g. see the this video for the extensive analysis done by Samsung on said Galaxy battery failures - which is unprecedented in both its breadth and depth).

That's why when you tear down genuine laptop battery packs from reputable laptop manufacturers you find only cells from top-tier cell manufacturers.
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#19
Gauss: please when referring to YT videos you either enclose the video tag (Iu18CykEH9o) encapsulated in the [ youtube ][ /youtube ] embeds, or use the full url visible. 


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