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Other inverter options?
#21
(08-25-2020, 08:03 PM)Cheap 4-life Wrote: Very cool! Are all of the loads that you can power wired into the MTS?
No - I have additional ATSs.    For example, I have a dedicated ATS at the outdoor heat pump unit.  

The grey wire (in the pic) is the 'grid' wiring that originally hooked to the heat pump - so I used it as the grid input to the ATS.  The circuit breaker for this is in the house main panel.   Then I ran a circuit from the Inverter distribution panel to the ATS for the generator circuit.   The circuit breaker for that is in the inverter distribution panel.   The output of the ATS goes directly to the heat pump on the outside of the house just on the other side of the wall.

There's no need for an MTS in this case because its a single circuit going thru ATS.   If I want to disable the inverter power going to it - I turn off the circuit breaker to this at the inverter distribution panel...  and it will revert to 100% grid.
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#22
Very well explained offgridinthecity, reputation point earned from me.
If I can’t find another grid tie or offgrid or hybrid inverter that can do what the GTIL2 can do, then offgrid is an option and you helped me understand that.

Why did you not wire all your loads to the MTS? Is it because the MTS or the ATS can’t handle the amps of all of the loads? Or just not enough space in the MTS?
#23
(08-25-2020, 09:31 PM)Cheap 4-life Wrote: Very well explained offgridinthecity, reputation point earned from me.
If I can’t find another grid tie or offgrid or hybrid inverter that can do what the GTIL2 can do, then offgrid is an option and you helped me understand that.

Why did you not wire all your loads to the MTS? Is it because the MTS or the ATS can’t handle the amps of all of the loads? Or just not enough space in the MTS?
Very kind, thank you.

>Why did you not wire all your loads to the MTS? Is it because the MTS or the ATS can’t handle the amps of all of the loads? Or just not enough space in the MTS?
Yes and Yes.  You'll notice the MTS only has 10 circuits with a max circuit of 30a.    To buy an MTS that handles >30a circuits gets in to a 'next level' of expense and complication.  To buy an ATS that >50a is also another level of expense.   Generac is an example of 100a+ ATSs.

Also the wiring from inverter #1 to the main panel was 150ft up/down/thru-attic/walls (had to hire it done).   The wiring from inverter #2 to the heat pump was only 50ft and I was able to do it myself - just had to buy a 2nd ATS Smile

If you do decide to go down this road in the future, I'm happy to have a more detailed discussion and provide links to the parts I used etc.    For example, one objection I've gotten to ATS'ing is that motors can surge as the sine waves may not be matched during switchover...     but here in the US, with modern (<10yrs old) refrigerators and newer heat pump variable drive technology (no surge) I've not had any trouble over the last 2 years (over 1,000 switches back/forth to date).   

Another key issue is you need a UPS strategy for computers/sensation equipment to smooth ATS switching.   As a software engineer with lots of computers - I already had several APC UPSs just to protect myself from the power company so this wasn't an issue - but your situation may be different.

Good luck and let us know what you decide Smile
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#24
There’s an outback inverter that has gridzero. I think this will allow the outback to work like the GTIL2.

Does anyone know if it will allow the pv power to charge the battery when loads aren’t using all the pv power that’s available? Or does it only do AC charging?
https://www.ecodirect.com/Outback-Radian...48a-01.htm
#25
I'm not familiar with the radian, but I believe the Outback Skybox would do what you are asking. I am having some difficulty figuring out exactly what you are looking for because you reference the capability of an inverter then daromer says that inverter doesn't do what you think it does.

But the Skybox has built in MPPT for direct solar input, 48 v battery, AC coupling, internal automatic transfer switch, and a free ham sandwich!

The product data sheet says it will do grid zero type operation, charge the battery with excess solar production that isn't being consumed by loads. But, if you're AC coupled there is no way for a battery inverter to shut down the PV output while grid tied.
#26
Yes and yes. Its a hybrid. What you ask for is just simple grid tie functionality.

And yes victron can do exactly the same. All hybrids can. Hybrid is a grid tie system with a battery setup. When using grid There is No such thing as priority persue. What gtil do is work around and limit output. Same as many other have with a sense unit. Ie make sure the grid useage is at 0.

Neither IF you do that or supply evertything to the grid you legally need to be approved to Connect the unit to the grid.

The advantages with other hybrid units is that they are all in One systems. That also work fine when There is Power outage.

IF you look at some of My old threads i have gone through what actually differs between the systems

But i must ask. IF you persist to say that gtil is evertything why do you look for others? What is it you are missing? The legal aspect? Battery charging from och/ac? Having One unit instead of multiple?
NOTE! My links supplied in this message may be affiliated with Ebay and by clicking on them you agree on the terms.
YouTube / Forum system setup / My webpage  Diy Tech & Repairs

Current: 10kW Mpp Hybrid | 4kW PIP4048 | 2x PCM60x | 100kWh LiFePo4 | 20kWh 14s 18650 |  66*260W Poly | ABB S3 and S5 Trip breakers
Upcoming: 14S 18650~30kWh
#27
(08-26-2020, 07:03 AM)daromer Wrote: Yes and yes. Its a hybrid. What you ask for is just simple grid tie functionality.

And yes victron can do exactly the same. All hybrids can. Hybrid is a grid tie system with a battery setup. When using grid There is No such thing as priority persue. What gtil do is work around and limit output. Same as many other have with a sense unit. Ie make sure the grid useage is at 0.

Neither IF you do that or supply evertything to the grid you legally need to be approved to Connect the unit to the grid.

The advantages with other hybrid units is that they are all in One systems. That also work fine when There is Power outage.

IF you look at some of My old threads i have gone through what actually differs between the systems

But i must ask. IF you persist to say that gtil is evertything why do you look for others? What is it you are missing? The legal aspect? Battery charging from och/ac? Having One unit instead of multiple?
What I’m looking for isn’t simple grid tie functionality. I havnt been able to find any other inverters that can use pv power first and if that’s not enough for the load a low voltage battery supplies the rest for the same load, all when the grid is supplying power to that load to fully supply the load if pv and battery isn’t enough.

I’m confused now. Victron will not do what the GTIL2 plus charge controller can do from my research. Can you show me where it says it can? Victrons are offgrid inverters that can use battery. Can they supply loads with the pv power and at the same time allow battery to charge with excess? And while doing that, also allow the loads to use grid power to finish fully supplying the load at the same time if pv and battery isn’t enough for the load. (Not only use battery when grid is down) I dont think victrons have limiting either. The things I mentioned can only be achieved by a grid tie inverter that can be powered by a battery when they are still grid tied. There’s a lot of grid tie inverters that can only use battery as a backup when the grids disconnected.

The GTIL2 will not do some of the things a hybrid inverter will do. But as far as I can tell most hybrid inverters only allow the battery to be used as a back up when they are not acting like grid tie inverter. Meaning that they can’t be gridtied and use battery at the same time.

I’m looking for other inverters because the GTIL2 might not continue to be made. And I’m looking for a better, more well known name brand. I’m moving and might leave my inverters in this house. Just looking for other options, but it seems like not many (if any) can use battery when they are grid tied.

As far as legally, no I shouldn’t be using the GTIL2. In my area I’m not allowed install-diy anything if I want a solar meter put on my house to sell back to the grid-feed into the grid. The cost of having a nabcep certified installer do all of the work and to use all the equipment they require, would have made it so I never would have seen a return on investment. This is why I got a limiting inverter. This makes it none of their business if the power I’m producing never leaves my house
#28
How do you connect a battery and solar to the GTIL2 at the same time?
NOTE! My links supplied in this message may be affiliated with Ebay and by clicking on them you agree on the terms.
YouTube / Forum system setup / My webpage  Diy Tech & Repairs

Current: 10kW Mpp Hybrid | 4kW PIP4048 | 2x PCM60x | 100kWh LiFePo4 | 20kWh 14s 18650 |  66*260W Poly | ABB S3 and S5 Trip breakers
Upcoming: 14S 18650~30kWh
#29
(08-26-2020, 12:59 PM)daromer Wrote: How do you connect a battery and solar to the GTIL2 at the same time?
The pv power coming from the charge controller goes to the battery and bypasses the battery then going directly to the inverter, if the loads can use the pv power. If the loads can’t use all of the pv power then the battery is charged with the excess the loads aren’t using.
If pv power isn’t enough to fully supply the load then battery is used at the same time to supply the load. If pv and battery isn’t enough then (at the same time) the grid supplies the rest of what the loads need.
That is what a grid tie inverter can do if it can be powered by battery and or pv while the grid is still able to supply Wink


This is basically how my setup is wired. But I have lithium battery with a higher voltage than the pic, 2 2kw inverters (1kw shown in the pic), the inverters operating volts is 45-90v.

I only use the offgrid inverter during power outage- emergency
#30
Google grid-tie inverter with battery and you find many that do it today. = Hybrid systems.

Schneider have it, ABB have it, Victron have it, Kostal have it, Tesla have it, Victron have it.

Im not going to dig into all models having the abillity to do battery at same time but they are plenty today. And all of them can basically do what you ask for in one way or another. But the cost is of course higher since above mentioned brands are known brands and legal.
NOTE! My links supplied in this message may be affiliated with Ebay and by clicking on them you agree on the terms.
YouTube / Forum system setup / My webpage  Diy Tech & Repairs

Current: 10kW Mpp Hybrid | 4kW PIP4048 | 2x PCM60x | 100kWh LiFePo4 | 20kWh 14s 18650 |  66*260W Poly | ABB S3 and S5 Trip breakers
Upcoming: 14S 18650~30kWh


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