Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
18650 temperature
#21
(03-02-2019, 11:24 PM)allend83 Wrote: I'm thinking of reducing my charge current and have also been contemplating introducing some fans. I was only at 1000ma to speed up the charge. I may be doing my testing arse about face! I charge to full and check for SD, then IR (when yr1030 arrives) and finally capacity.

I've seen specs on cells like that as well. Also some loon on another forum suggested 90°C which quite frankly is eye watering and scares the living hell out of me!

Absolutely couldn't agree more do I want such rouge cells in my build probably not. But assuming IR is not an issue (which I can only assume seeing as I can't test it. At this moment can't think what else could cause a high cell temp other than IR) I'm going to be building a small powerwall so therefore the draw per cell is never going to get anywhere near 1A not at least for a sustained amount of time. Therefore am I worrying un unnecessarily? As I said before minefield!

PS side note where are you based?
allend83,

An answer to your first point regarding your cell testing.

I started like you into this venture as blind as a bat. It took a while to realize as to what this project would entail and what the outcome eventually would be. My first setup was 1 OPUS charger as this is what I found was the most discussed tester when I started reading and lurking around the internet, finding whatever I could that had 18650 attached to it. Soon that became 1 OPUS and 2 Zanflairs then a LiitoKala. I will at some point write the whole story when I start to document my powerwall build. I now have 3 LiitoKalas, 3 OPUS, 4 Foxnovos, 1 XTAR, 3 Znaflairs, 1 SkyRC and an iCharger x6 amongst a myriad of other chargers and testers. Some of them have not been built yet as low temperature is a problem in my shed.
So I started to test all the batteries and anything that was below 2000mAh would go into one bucket and anything over into another bucket.
I gave little thought as to what that meant, hey if a cell produced 2000mAh I was happy right? Not so I soon found out about capacity percentage and IR.

That gave me a whole new outlook on cells their chemistry and how to properly test them. I know there are some people on this board that go by simple analysis of these cells, no IR check just go by what they have for mAh ratings throw them into buckets separated by 100mAh increments and call it good.
I can't say that there is not some logic to this as it has worked for them and their walls are storing energy and dispersing it accordingly. It works for them.

I unfortunately needed to know more about these cells and what is happening inside or at least get an idea.
So I had already processed about 700 cells and sorted them the 100mAh way and was very happy that I was at that time half way to my 14s100p battery.
I then got introduced to IR and what its implications are. Well did that change my perspective. So I ended up testing all those cells again.I was running out of room on the cells to be able to write all this information on to so I said time to learn Excel so I did. 

I now test all cells V first sort them into 3 groups of <2V, 2V to 3V and >3V I then pull them out by which charging system has room and check each cell for its IR. If the IR is over 100mΩ I bin it. I then charge them according to their V with different parameters. <2V go into a 20p charger to be CC/CV charged to ~4.2V at 50mA per cell. Takes a day or so and those get set aside till there are enough to have a block of 40 or so of the same type.
2V to 3V get a 300mA charge on the Zanflairs (that's the only thing the Zanflairs are good for as they suck as testers) and several other CC/CV chargers that I have. 3V+ go several other 500mA and 1A chargers. I run my hand over the cells occasionally to spot any with abnormal temps and also use my thermal camera to spot any emerging heaters. It will pick up a 1°C difference and show up nice and red. If on my 20p charger the V stops climbing I pull all the cells out and do a V check on them and inadvertently there will be 1 or 2 cells that are lower in V than the rest (I call them Vamp Cells) as they are sucking the mA out of the rest. I label those as "Vamp" and bin them. Once removed the rest of the cells take a sigh of relief and the V starts to climb again. Now mind you this V climb can only be seen on a 4 decimal point DMM at least initially.
My charging / testing area.

Once all the cells are charged and I have a block big enough of the same kind I give them a number and record their V and IR. I then test them at 500mA and document their capacity and the spreadsheet calculates their percentage capacity. I write the capacity on the cell and then store them in boxes of 100.
After about a month or so I recheck them and record again their IR and V and the sheet calculates the difference. There the SDs are discovered and marked in the sheet. I know that sounds like a lot of work but I have fun at it and I know when I am done the cells in my powerwall will be the best possible ones. I also can from then on track each cell and if I do have a failure possibly determine why and avoid that error in the future.
The other reason i record all the cells even the ones I know wont be up to snuff is to build a database from which i can extrapolate the IR / capacity correlation and come up with charts that will tell me where the IR cutoff is of a cell being good "80% Capacity" or not.
Like this chart of the ICR18650-26* 321 cells tested and I can just about guarantee you if the IR is higher than 60mΩ you will have a cell with less than 80% capacity. This is not the only chart I have there are many more on my google drive.


That's how I do it.
This is by no means a guide on how you or anyone else should analyze their cells as that is a personal preference .
But given that this is more of a hobby and learning experience for me I want to know everything about it to the best of my ability and become as knowledge as possible to be able to help others untangle the mysteries of the 18650!

Wolf

The answer to your PS I am based in the Portland, Maine area East Coast.
If 18 X 650 = 2200+mAh then we have power! 
May all your Cells have an IR of 75mΩ or less Smile
Last count as of 8/7/2019
Total Number of Cells Recorded and processed                 6149
Total Cells required for PowIRwall                                   2856
Total Cells ≥2200mAh, ≥80%, ≥35mΩ, ≤75mΩ, ≥4.12V   2760
For Info Google Drive
Not your average Wolf       
            Cool
Reply
#22
(03-04-2019, 09:52 PM)Wolf Wrote: I now test all cells V first sort them into 3 groups of <2V, 2V to 3V and >3V I then pull them out by which charging system has room and check each cell for its IR. If the IR is over 100mΩ I bin it.

How many of them binned ones do you have? Have you considered selling them?
No. cells
Indexed: 53
Processed ok, not yet indexed: ~1500
Broken down, untested: ~800
Not yet broken down: ~140 kg
Reply
#23
(03-05-2019, 10:29 AM)winny Wrote:
(03-04-2019, 09:52 PM)Wolf Wrote: I now test all cells V first sort them into 3 groups of <2V, 2V to 3V and >3V I then pull them out by which charging system has room and check each cell for its IR. If the IR is over 100mΩ I bin it.

How many of them binned ones do you have? Have you considered selling them?

I might have ~150 or so and no I won't sell them but I will give them away. With almost 3000 cells tested (57 shy of that mark) and all recorded I have found that 100mΩ cells will not perform and will be on the low end of the performance chart. Also most of them are SDs . There are some stragglers in there  but after a 30 day rest again most will show up as SDs. Also most manufacturers that give IR readings in their spec sheets will give you a < mΩ reading.  I have found some Samsung and Sanyo part numbers all with <100mΩ IR spec. So I kind of use that as my guide. That is the highest acceptable mΩ reading I have found. I will also more than likely give away any cells that are less than 80% of capacity. Avoids the "The cells you sold me are junk" scenario. I just gave away ~1000 or so cells to someone who wanted to practice spot welding etc. Good for me good for him.


There is an exception to the rule though some Sony cells have a high IR and seem to recover well after a slow CC/CV charge. So I do give the Sony another look if the V is at least ~1V if below then it is dicy.

Cells that are below my 2200mAh threshold but above 80% capacity I will give them a second look but more than likely will sell those.

Wolf
If 18 X 650 = 2200+mAh then we have power! 
May all your Cells have an IR of 75mΩ or less Smile
Last count as of 8/7/2019
Total Number of Cells Recorded and processed                 6149
Total Cells required for PowIRwall                                   2856
Total Cells ≥2200mAh, ≥80%, ≥35mΩ, ≤75mΩ, ≥4.12V   2760
For Info Google Drive
Not your average Wolf       
            Cool
Reply
#24
Still testing cells after two years and here's my methodology based on my experiences during that time.

I charge everything that will take a charge with a 20A PSU and TP4056 boards 20p > leave for a week or 10 days > check for discharge (under 4.05ish is binned) > capacity test on Liitokala Lii 500's (my cut-off is 1800mah) I remove once the discharge where possible has finished and charge in the TP4056 charger > store > test again before going into the packs.

Heaters above 45* are binned (mostly Sanyo, Panasonic & Sony) I sometimes test heaters again on the TP4056 charger but not my LiitoKala 500's I have lost one or two to heat.
I have heard that cycle-testing the Sanyo heaters can sometimes produce non-heaters. I may try this with the current batch. One note on a similar vane is that a proportion of cells which dont heat over my threshold on the first charge do go over temp on the charge before storage... yes mostly Sanyo's!

High resistance cells mostly have low capacity but I will check resistance before including in the packs.

J
Reply
#25
(03-07-2019, 02:43 PM)SemaJG Wrote: Still testing cells after two years and here's my methodology based on my experiences during that time.

I charge everything that will take a charge with a 20A PSU and TP4056 boards 20p > leave for a week or 10 days > check for discharge (under 4.05ish is binned) > capacity test on Liitokala Lii 500's (my cut-off is 1800mah) I remove once the discharge where possible has finished and charge in the TP4056 charger > store > test again before going into the packs.

Heaters above 45* are binned (mostly Sanyo, Panasonic & Sony) I sometimes test heaters again on the TP4056 charger but not my LiitoKala 500's I have lost one or two to heat.
I have heard that cycle-testing the Sanyo heaters can sometimes produce non-heaters. I may try this with the current batch. One note on a similar vane is that a proportion of cells which dont heat over my threshold on the first charge do go over temp on the charge before storage... yes mostly Sanyo's!

High resistance cells mostly have low capacity but I will check resistance before including in the packs.

J
SemaJG,
Two years that's great. Lots of experience there I must say.
I built a 40 cell charger board with TP4056es also and love it.
I would like to ask a couple of questions if you don't mind.
Your cutoff of 1800mAh does that also include the percent of capacity left in the cell? As in if you have an ICR18650-30B cell rated at 2950mAh and if it checks out at 1866mAh it only has 63.25% of its capacity. Would that be a concern to you?
What have you found out about IR and its correlation with cell health.
Also what would your IR cutoff be per cell manufacturer as it appears that they are different for each model and manufacturer and also chemistry.
Do you have a rule of thumb?
I usually charge my lower V cells >2.2V but <3V at 300mA on my Zanflairs. ( That's all the Zanflair is good for charging) and out of the 12 I was charging 3 of them lit up like a christmas tree on the thermal camera. That's kinda how I check for heaters. They are only 30.5°C but at 300mA that is kind of suspicious.


I also charge my <2.2V to ≈.01V on a 20p CC/CV board at 50mA per cell and check for heaters and "Vamp" cells. None in this image.
Although the Vamp cells eventually will show up.


Thanks in advance.

Wolf
If 18 X 650 = 2200+mAh then we have power! 
May all your Cells have an IR of 75mΩ or less Smile
Last count as of 8/7/2019
Total Number of Cells Recorded and processed                 6149
Total Cells required for PowIRwall                                   2856
Total Cells ≥2200mAh, ≥80%, ≥35mΩ, ≤75mΩ, ≥4.12V   2760
For Info Google Drive
Not your average Wolf       
            Cool
Reply
#26
Quote:"Your cutoff of 1800mAh does that also include the percent of capacity left in the cell? As in if you have an ICR18650-30B cell rated at 2950mAh and if it checks out at 1866mAh it only has 63.25% of its capacity. Would that be a concern to you?"


The Liitokalas discharge down to 2.8v I count only the capacity that they read from 4.~V to 2.8v I try not to use cells where the measured capacity I have is less than that specified by the cell manufacturer. I take that to mean that the cell is on a faulty and will fail in some way dragging others down with it potentially, so its culled.

Quote:"What have you found out about IR and its correlation with cell health.
Also what would your IR cutoff be per cell manufacturer as it appears that they are different for each model and manufacturer and also chemistry.
Do you have a rule of thumb?"


I plan not to use cells over 80mr (Liitokalas max out at 125mr) some believe 60mr is too high. I will test cells with one of the battery resistance testers before I build my packs finally. Yes this is general but life is short Smile I'm building a powerwall which should not tax the cells so badly as to expose differences in ir. If I were building a battery for some high drain application I would be more concerned by ir. I think of ir like the neck of a bottle the higher the ir the smaller the opening for the energy to flow which will result in cells with high ir going out of balance and lagging behind the more normal cells.

I dont group by the resting voltage found in the packs but I do note the voltage at the various stages above on each cell for an instant history check to use in my final appraisal.
I have though taken to grouping cells by type eg; Sanyo green tops or the horrible red tops when testing. The reason being that you have a clear comparison at time of testing with their cousins to further weed out anything unusual. It also means that when the cells are grouped in the Liitokalas for discharge they come in as a group so I can remove them together and put back in the TP4056's for the re-charge cycle, this frees up the Liitikala for another batch pretty efficiently.
With 8 Liitokalas and 20 TP4056 boards I can capacity test over 100 cells in a day. I never do any testing when I'm not there in attendance to weed out the heaters. I wish there was a cheap temp probe / method that recorded the the max temp on hot cells then perhaps you could leave them. I have found cheap digital probes but they all just measure current temp.
One failure of the TP4056 boards for me is that you cant track charge time easily. This is necessary I believe but I prefer them for charging to the slightly fragile Liitokalas..
I am fast beginning to wonder if some Sanyo cells are worth testing at all even though their original capacity should be over 2amp hrs. I'm pretty sure some people just reject them out of hand. Just today I had a green top Sanyo that came through the TP boards and capacity tested well only to go red hot on the re-charge cycle. Hard to trust them I think.

Wolf your work and documentation is going well beyond the level of detail most of us here have ever gone to. Mike's cell database is another great resource which I use when my memory lets me down. Keep it up man, we are all new things learning every day.

J
Reply
#27
Thanks for sharing your experiences with me.


Quote:I plan not to use cells over 80mr (Liitokalas max out at 125mr) some believe 60mr is too high. I will test cells with one of the battery resistance testers before I build my packs finally.
I dont think 60mΩ is too high on some cell models esp some of the LG cells perform very well into the mid to high 80s also the manufacturer spec sheets show an acceptable IR of ≤100mΩ.
LOL on the LiitoKala IR maxing out at 125mΩ. I once put some LG cells with a moderately high IR into the LiitoKala and all where showing 125mΩ I did it 3 times and they still showed that high.
Quote:I think of ir like the neck of a bottle the higher the ir the smaller the opening for the energy to flow which will result in cells with high ir going out of balance and lagging behind the more normal cells.
Great analogy I like it. (Thumbs up)
Quote:I am fast beginning to wonder if some Sanyo cells are worth testing at all even though their original capacity should be over 2amp hrs. I'm pretty sure some people just reject them out of hand. Just today I had a green top Sanyo that came through the TP boards and capacity tested well only to go red hot on the re-charge cycle. Hard to trust them I think.
I wholeheartedly agree with your analysis of the Sanyo cells.
Personally I do like the UR18650F cells out of all of them I tested so far. Also the UR18650A which seem to be very good . Some are heaters but very few and the IR of the good ones is generally in the mid 40mΩ to low 60mΩ range.
The UR18650ZT has also been a pretty good performer.
I reluctantly still test the other ones. First of they are lower capacity and their performance most of the time is not stellar by any stretch of the imagination.
But for the sake of the database I do it. So yes I agree with your sinopsis of the Sanyo cells. Good to have a second verification though as I have only been doing this for ~4 months and you have 2 years under your belt.

Wolf
If 18 X 650 = 2200+mAh then we have power! 
May all your Cells have an IR of 75mΩ or less Smile
Last count as of 8/7/2019
Total Number of Cells Recorded and processed                 6149
Total Cells required for PowIRwall                                   2856
Total Cells ≥2200mAh, ≥80%, ≥35mΩ, ≤75mΩ, ≥4.12V   2760
For Info Google Drive
Not your average Wolf       
            Cool
Reply
#28
Hi folks. I have 1600+ Panasonic NCR18650A(s) that I'm processing. I notice that many of them are getting hotter than anything I've encountered so far in my cell processing.

I use OPUS BT-C3100(s). I discharge at 500ma and charge at 1000ma in a 24C/75F ambient temp environment.

I generally don't worry about anyting <38C (100F). Too hot to touch is obvious discard - e.g. 55C (130F).

However... what about up to 43C (110F). Is 43C/110F generally acceptable or what is a 'top heat' that is generally OK?

Does an elevated temperature - up to 43C - indicate that it will get worse over time?

Any guidance on this would be appreciated.
Reply
#29
(07-26-2019, 02:34 AM)OffGridInTheCity Wrote: Hi folks.  I have 1600+  Panasonic NCR18650A(s) that I'm processing.   I notice that many of them are getting hotter than anything I've encountered so far in my cell processing.

I use OPUS BT-C3100(s).  I discharge at 500ma and charge at 1000ma in a 24C/75F ambient temp environment.  

I generally don't worry about anyting <38C  (100F).    Too hot to touch is obvious discard - e.g. 55C (130F).

However...  what about up to 43C (110F).     Is 43C/110F generally acceptable or what is a 'top heat' that is generally OK?

Does an elevated temperature - up to 43C - indicate that it will get worse over time?  

Any guidance on this would be appreciated.

@AverageJoe said that he's had good luck letting 'heaters' sit a few days and then retest them.    So I gave it a try and it worked.   I had accumulated over 30 heaters and simply restested them - and they all charged/discharged within normal heat range.    Amazing.   Thanks Joe!
Reply
#30
(07-29-2019, 04:03 PM)OffGridInTheCity Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 02:34 AM)OffGridInTheCity Wrote: Hi folks.  I have 1600+  Panasonic NCR18650A(s) that I'm processing.   I notice that many of them are getting hotter than anything I've encountered so far in my cell processing.

I use OPUS BT-C3100(s).  I discharge at 500ma and charge at 1000ma in a 24C/75F ambient temp environment.  

I generally don't worry about anyting <38C  (100F).    Too hot to touch is obvious discard - e.g. 55C (130F).

However...  what about up to 43C (110F).     Is 43C/110F generally acceptable or what is a 'top heat' that is generally OK?

Does an elevated temperature - up to 43C - indicate that it will get worse over time?  

Any guidance on this would be appreciated.

@AverageJoe said that he's had good luck letting 'heaters' sit a few days and then retest them.    So I gave it a try and it worked.   I had accumulated over 30 heaters and simply restested them - and they all charged/discharged within normal heat range.    Amazing.   Thanks Joe!
OffGridInTheCity,

NCR18650A great battery wish I had that number.
Now down to details.
The NCR18650 is a 3000mAh low drain high capacity cell.
If we look at the spec sheet we find out that the "standard" charge rate is 1475mA with a 59mA cutoff at 4.2V and the standard discharge rate is 600mA to a 2.5V cutoff.

I would be curious to know what the IR of the hot ones is. In my experience with them the IR should be at a max of 45mΩ and a preferred of ≤40mΩ.
You don't mention at what point the cell gets hot. During charging or discharging? As you are discharging at 500mA I would doubt that that is when the heat appears and it is in the 1A charging that it rears its ugly head.
Stressing a battery will get the temp up to 45 °C but that is where I draw the line. Anything above that and in a high drain situation I would not use that battery.
The trick comes in is what are you going to pull from your powerwall?
1A per cell, 500mA per cell, 250mA per cell, or less than that?
I presume all of us are looking for that sweet spot of ~250mA per cell or lower so if we have an average of 2500mAh cells we can run our house for about
10hrs on a full charge. I seriously doubt that "most" reasonable cells will have a heat issue with that discharge rate.

Charging is another matter when the sun is out we want to pump as many amps into the cells as possible. Now that being said let's assume the pack they came in had 12 cells. I doubt very seriously that the pack would be recharged at 17.7 Amps. I could be wrong but I don't think so.

So to answer your question.
Check IR, if possible charge and discharge at manufactures "standard" spec and 45°C is my cut off period.
As far as letting hot ones sit for a couple of days and then try again, If it works great but I would personally put a marker on those cells and treat them as suspect as I have had those cells also Including the NCR18650A and have found out after letting them sit for a month or so they have a tendency to SD.

Wolf
If 18 X 650 = 2200+mAh then we have power! 
May all your Cells have an IR of 75mΩ or less Smile
Last count as of 8/7/2019
Total Number of Cells Recorded and processed                 6149
Total Cells required for PowIRwall                                   2856
Total Cells ≥2200mAh, ≥80%, ≥35mΩ, ≤75mΩ, ≥4.12V   2760
For Info Google Drive
Not your average Wolf       
            Cool
Reply


Who read this thread?
90 User(s) read this thread:
stevelectric (07-26-2019, 11:09 AM), VladKasatkin (03-17-2019, 11:54 AM), beserker786 (03-08-2019, 07:35 AM), kophi (03-07-2019, 04:21 PM), intra (03-08-2019, 01:12 AM), winny (03-05-2019, 10:29 AM), Havskum (04-23-2019, 12:33 PM), Omalik (03-26-2019, 11:43 AM), Greenbatt (03-07-2019, 09:21 PM), Ebarnett (03-03-2019, 04:56 PM), Church1182 (03-01-2019, 12:30 AM), mskip (03-14-2019, 09:52 PM), PaulDane (03-05-2019, 08:08 PM), ajw22 (07-29-2019, 07:02 PM), kevinjaye (07-30-2019, 10:58 PM), mart1nn (03-05-2019, 06:42 PM), OffGridInTheCity (07-30-2019, 06:25 PM), LEDSchlucker (03-04-2019, 10:03 PM), 1Lukas1 (03-17-2019, 09:14 PM), bertvaneyken (04-02-2019, 09:57 PM), Overmind (03-01-2019, 01:34 PM), allend83 (03-09-2019, 02:40 PM), FishStormEight (03-01-2019, 03:35 PM), 100kwh-hunter (07-27-2019, 01:13 PM), Nemo (07-29-2019, 05:12 PM), Regalo (08-04-2019, 10:49 AM), nero1986 (08-03-2019, 03:13 PM), Emiel (06-27-2019, 02:22 PM), xahmedxsa (07-06-2019, 09:28 AM), Saiya (06-15-2019, 02:39 PM), evbkz (08-08-2019, 08:38 AM), nankatigo (07-26-2019, 03:21 AM), a.ostojic (08-07-2019, 01:01 PM), mikegleasonjr (05-09-2019, 01:23 PM), gigaz (04-17-2019, 02:38 PM), Bilabob (03-10-2019, 10:54 PM), JimU (03-06-2019, 03:36 PM), JonSon (03-07-2019, 07:40 AM), MonkeyThink (03-23-2019, 09:53 AM), coskunismail (03-09-2019, 10:14 PM), juanjo57 (04-04-2019, 06:12 AM), GROW UP (03-21-2019, 07:37 PM), adriandobre (08-18-2019, 07:55 PM), Werner2 (04-03-2019, 09:47 AM), dragonfly (08-14-2019, 04:12 AM), daromer (07-30-2019, 04:49 PM), Geek (07-31-2019, 01:44 AM), Ivo Staelens (08-09-2019, 01:08 PM), DarkRaven (03-08-2019, 04:30 PM), SemaJG (03-07-2019, 08:27 PM), ChrisD5710 (03-01-2019, 12:50 PM), Oz18650 (07-30-2019, 10:40 PM), AndyMc1970 (03-08-2019, 10:44 AM), bogptrsn (03-01-2019, 03:42 AM), djuro (07-31-2019, 05:31 AM), BlueSwordM (03-07-2019, 04:27 PM), Stefaan De Ridder (03-03-2019, 01:18 PM), Sean (07-30-2019, 09:11 AM), mike (03-04-2019, 10:35 PM), Korishan (07-30-2019, 06:56 PM), PAF (07-30-2019, 06:22 AM), jdeadman (07-26-2019, 03:45 AM), melsom (04-01-2019, 11:51 AM), The-J-Man (03-02-2019, 10:46 AM), watts-on (03-11-2019, 05:01 PM), Dan Lim (04-17-2019, 03:14 AM), spinningmagnets (03-05-2019, 12:15 PM), jm1 (08-05-2019, 03:18 AM), Chablis_m (03-02-2019, 05:37 AM), w0067814 (03-09-2019, 07:35 AM), emuland-metroman (07-30-2019, 06:48 PM), Beholder (07-29-2019, 06:45 PM), 2pPac (08-20-2019, 11:27 AM), sl1me (08-16-2019, 07:00 AM), Wolf (07-31-2019, 01:42 PM), Bastler_Ro (03-01-2019, 06:57 AM), camthecam (03-04-2019, 11:54 PM), Generic (08-11-2019, 03:47 AM), Katarn_89 (07-27-2019, 03:00 AM), bukvaahmed@gmail.com (03-08-2019, 12:07 PM), rodagaster (03-01-2019, 10:44 PM), viajero (07-29-2019, 02:49 AM), Dala (03-05-2019, 01:14 PM), Crimp Daddy (03-07-2019, 09:07 PM), Redpacket (07-26-2019, 09:32 AM), Ibiza (07-30-2019, 09:01 PM), Bubba (07-26-2019, 11:25 PM), Walde (03-09-2019, 02:49 PM), Riplash (03-03-2019, 10:04 PM), Speicher (03-12-2019, 05:57 AM)

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)