48 Volt 1000 Watt Rear Hub Ebike Conversion

Wattsup

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Feb 19, 2017
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I started this build a couple of weeks ago after finding this bike on local council rubbish collection pile.


image_jmzmqc.jpg


My first ebike is a 36 volt250 Watt Bafang/ hybrid conversion, which is awesome...but

There was always a plan to build something with a bit more ??s but was notgoing to be anytime soon... until I found this bike :)

I have access to a good amount of high drain cells, so that takes care of the most expensive component of the build, the battery.

After some research I settled on this kit

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com.au/ulk/itm/132103030688

On receiving the kit, first impressions were good, especially for the price!

First jobs were to swap tyre and tube to motor rim, I made sure to use rim tape as there is a fair amount of added weight in the rear hub.

The build is almost complete now. I'll guage interest in this thread before taking the time to share the entire build
 
Dang, that's a nice bike. Dont look cheap, unless ya stole it second hand :p
 
Korishan said:
Dang, that's a nice bike. Dont look cheap, unless ya stole it second hand :p

Do you mean could it have been stolen and dumped on the rubbish pile?

It is a very nice bike, I'm guessing 5-700 AU when it was new.

Thestranger part is it appears to have hardly been ridden at all. No wear on the pedals or tyres at all!
It had 2 flat tyres and handle bars were loose when I found it. It looked very out of place on a rubbish pile!

It was funny actually, when Ispotted it and pulled over, a moment later a guy pulled over on the other side of the road. We both walked up to it and couldn't believe how good it was. I got toit first though ;)
 
Don't recognize the brand, probably more a bike made from chinesium for sale at 249 at a discounter or something? But still, looks as good as new, makes no sense to throw it away.
With 1000W this is going to be a hell of a ride for sure. If it is indeed made from chinesium I would take a close look at its structural integrity before trying to put 1000W down on the road.
 
DarkRaven said:
Don't recognize the brand, probably more a bike made from chinesium for sale at 249 at a discounter or something? But still, looks as good as new, makes no sense to throw it away.
With 1000W this is going to be a hell of a ride for sure. If it is indeed made from chinesium I would take a close look at its structural integrity before trying to put 1000W down on the road.

There isn't a lot of web info on Apollo, mainly references to AU and NZ markets. They've been sold here for 30 years and have a decent rep.
So no, not your 249 crapper. Made in China I'm sure but so is are myGiant bikes.

Yes, I can confirm 1000 watt is a great ride ;)
 
And here's the rest of the build in a nutshell, well It's a video but you get the idea :p

 
I've got the same conversion kit for my mountain bike build.

Can I ask for details how you did the batteries?

I need to know where to buy the Case, BMS and charger from. I'm looking at this but so confused about all the options.

I also don't have a spot welder, so trying to work out how to configure the battery pack using samsung 30q cells...
 
Indeed a good cell the INR18650-25R. Have you tested their capacity at a high amp rate? I've been fooled by power tool cells before because I haven't thought about it at the time. At a low current they look like new but once you try to get some juice out of them they just collapse.
 
DarkRaven said:
Indeed a good cell the INR18650-25R. Have you tested their capacity at a high amp rate? I've been fooled by power tool cells before because I haven't thought about it at the time. At a low current they look like new but once you try to get some juice out of them they just collapse.

The cells are from packs with failed bms..most less than 1 year old ;)


zag2me said:
I've got the same conversion kit for my mountain bike build.

Can I ask for details how you did the batteries?

I need to know where to buy the Case, BMS and charger from. I'm looking at this but so confused about all the options.

I also don't have a spot welder, so trying to work out how to configure the battery pack using samsung 30q cells...
The hailong case you linked is a good way to go. I have that on my other bike.
There are some youtube vids already on making a battery using that case.

I hope to make a vid on my next battery build soon and also on how I'm charging using a 12v LiFe charger and boost converter.

This is the bms I used with my 30Q battery.

Free shipping 51.8V BMS 14S BMS PCM used for 51.8 V lithium ion battery pack 51.8V 14S 30A BMS / PCM With balance function

http://s.aliexpress.com/yuqMrMFz?fromSns=
I might try one with the bluetooth/ android app next

If you haven't already check out some youtube channels like ebikeschool.com

Happy to help if you have any other questions :)
 
Thanks BMS ordered!

So I've got my battery set out, how do I fuse it and where do the bus bars connect? Any kind of diagram or help would be much appreciated. How wide are the bus bars?

This is what I have so far.


image_nuthvp.jpg


Also i'm interested where to get a canvas bike frame bag from that is wide enough to hold the battery.
 
Looks like a 14s4p setup in a single pack? You can't add busbars and fuses in the traditional way running lengthwise along the pack. You have the most positive on the group of four cells on the far left on the picture and the most negative on the group of four cells on the near right. Between the groups of cells on the other side of the battery you'd usually have a total seven "2x4 nickel strips", on the top side you'd have six with the most positive and most negative terminal not connected. But you can put a piece of copper busbar widthwise between each group of cells and attach the four positive and four negative terminals of the adjacent cells with fusewire. You can see an example in Wattsups video.
 
image_ifbsfa.jpg
I added illustrations to your image. Red lines show the bus bars (the bottom ones are shown by which two rows they would go between), green lines show the fuses/wires, and the blue line shows the flow of electricity through the pack.
EDIT: Whoops, looks like I forgot to deselect some of my lines when changing colors. Silly Paint. the green line near the - (minus) end should be blue, and the + (positive) on the right should be all blue, not blue and red.
 
The guys are right and how you have your cells configured is correct.

Just check voltages before you connect them but the look like new cells so should be similar..Best to build the pack with cells around half charge if possible.

Brwainers diagram should help you.

As DR saiid the opposite and negative are at either end and the busbars alternate on the other side.

I used around 4mm2 twisted copper wire for busbars and 8 amp fuse wire.

I got my bag from an AU ebike company but there are heaps on Ali. I'll link the one I got later because it's a good one!

I'll add some photos later

You will save heaps of money building it yourself and there is satisfaction in DIY;)
 
Great thanks guys, here is what I have come up with....

Hope its correct!


image_pcerrl.jpg


image_oxcods.jpg


image_crnwyj.jpg
 
If it wasn't correct this would have been indicated by white smoke! :D

Some of your solder connections look pretty bad though, not enough heat and solder didn't flow properly.
 
The only thing I worry with a pack this small is the current flow. The fuse rating will be the limiting factor. Since we're talkin about using with an electric bike, amp draw will large.

So, if the motor pulls 100A (not sure what your stats are, just an example), that means 100 / 5 = 20A per cell (as you only have 5p and current is "only" shared across parallel connections).
However, if your motor pulls 50A, then 10A is the amps per cell. I hope your fuses are rated accordingly. If 1 fuse pops, then it will cause a cascade failure.

50A load: 10.0A | 10.0A | 10.0A | 10.0A | 10.0A
Pop Fuse: 0.0A | 12.5A | 12.5A | 12.5A | 12.5A

Now they are having to handle a higher amp, and the next one blows making the other 3 16.6A, then 2 (25A), then 1 (50A). Course, this happens in a relatively short span (<2seconds I would guess)

Just saying. But if your motor pulls 25A, I think you'll be fine if they are rated at 7A
 
zag2me said:
Great thanks guys, here is what I have come up with....

Hope its correct!


image_pcerrl.jpg


image_oxcods.jpg


image_crnwyj.jpg
Looking good!
I'll post some pics of my battery later today so you can see how I did the pos and neg leads.
I just added some new connectors and on off switch as well.

Are you going to shrink wrap?

This is the bag I used. You may be able find it on Ali?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com.au/ulk/itm/222410290674


Korishan said:
The only thing I worry with a pack this small is the current flow. The fuse rating will be the limiting factor. Since we're talkin about using with an electric bike, amp draw will large.

So, if the motor pulls 100A (not sure what your stats are, just an example), that means 100 / 5 = 20A per cell (as you only have 5p and current is "only" shared across parallel connections).
However, if your motor pulls 50A, then 10A is the amps per cell. I hope your fuses are rated accordingly. If 1 fuse pops, then it will cause a cascade failure.

50A load: 10.0A | 10.0A | 10.0A | 10.0A | 10.0A
Pop Fuse: 0.0A | 12.5A | 12.5A | 12.5A | 12.5A

Now they are having to handle a higher amp, and the next one blows making the other 3 16.6A, then 2 (25A), then 1 (50A). Course, this happens in a relatively short span (<2seconds I would guess)

Just saying. But if your motor pulls 25A, I think you'll be fine if they are rated at 7A
If the controller is same as mine it's 30 amp.

I'm using 8 amp fuse wireand seems fine. 30 / 4 = 7.5A andthat's peak, not continuous.

I'm going to add a watt meter to mine soon.
;)
 
Here's how I did the power leads using 12 AWG silicone wire


image_mjdrnw.jpg


And upgraded the connector to anti spark XT90 and on off switch


image_hdicgp.jpg
 
nice job on the anti-spark
 
Next additions will be led light bar. Might have to make a mounting bracket


image_vqpmoy.jpg


And some mud guards
 
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