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BAE-200 Powerwall
#1
Its time for me to start a project. 


I just finished building a LiFePO4 car battery in a 3D printed modular housing

[Image: ainyce1.jpg]


Now I think it's time for a Powerwall. I found two of these and I'm curious if you guys think these will be suitable for a powerwall for my application.

 

Here are the specs on these:

LIMITED STOCK! THIS BATTERY IS THE MOST POWERFUL BATTERY WE EVER GOT IN. THESE ARE ALSO WATERPROOF AND APPEAR TO BE USED ON NAVY SHIPS. SO THESE ARE THE BEST OF THE BEST. COMMERCIAL GRADE WORKING BMS, BUS BARS, SCREWS, WATERTIGHT ENCLOSURES, ETC ARE INCLUDED. ALL YOU NEED IS YOUR CONNECTOR WIRE. THERE IS A + AND - BUSBAR LABELED ON EACH END. WE INCLUDE THE SCREWS AS WELL TO FIT THE BUSBARS. ALL YOU NEED IS A PHILLIPS HEAD SCREW DRIVER. MAKE SURE YOU USE THICK WIRE. THIS MODULE CAN PUT OUT 90,000W OF POWER. WITH A DEAD SHORT AMP RATING OF 2250A. YOU ONLY NEED ONE OF THESE TO POWER UP TO 18 5,000W 36V INVERTERS AT THE SAME TIME. THIS IS THE EASIEST WAY TO BUILD A POWERWALL. JUST PARALLEL WIRE AS MANY AS YOU WANT. YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THESE CELLS GETTING HOT AND THE CYCLE LIFE IS 2-3 TIMES GREATER FOR LIFEPO4 THAN LITHIUM ION. THIS USES 96 A123 26650 LIFEPO4 CELLS. CHECK OUT THE SPECS BELOW. WE TESTED THESE ARE THEY HAVE AROUND 80-90% CAPACITY LEFT IN THEM WHICH MEANS THESE HAVE A LOT OF LIFE LEFT IN THEM. EACH CELL IS RATED AT 70A CONTINUOUS. BELOW ARE THE SPECS OF THE CELLS. CHECK THE PHOTOS FOR MORE DETAILS AS WELL. THIS IS A GREAT DEAL. I SEE THE PRICES ON ELECTRIC CAR BATTERY MODULES AND THIS DEAL BLOWS AWAY THOSE PRICES AND THE CELLS ARE ONE OF THE BEST OUT THERE.

[b]THE DIMENSIONS OF THIS BATTERY IS 31" X 6.5" X 3". WEIGHT IS 19.55LBS.

[/b]


The ANR26650M1-A is the first generation of A123 Systems’ pioneering 26650 cylindrical cell. This versatile lithium ion cell is suitable for a wide variety of applications and system designs. Proven performance in the toughest conditions, combining durability, reliability, and safety, the ANR26650 cell offers an excellent combination of price-performance.
Cylindrical Cell Primary Applications
- Portable high power devices
- Stationary battery backup systems
- Grid stabilization energy storage systems
- Commercial truck and bus hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs)
 
Lithium Cell Benefits
- Power: Over 2,600 W/kg and 5,800 W/L
- Safety: Excellent abuse tolerance and environmentally friendly
- Life: Excellent calendar life, 10X cycle life vs. conventional lithium ion


1.   Cell Dimensions(mm): 25.85mm(D)*65.15mm(H)
2.   Cell Weight(g): 70
3.   Nominal Capacity: 2300mAh

4.   Voltage(nominal,V): 3.3V
5.   Internal impedance(1kHz AC typical,mΩ): 6
6.   HPPC 10 Sec Discharge Pulse Power 50% SOC: 200W
7.   Recommended standard charge method: 1C to 3.6V CCCV, 45 min
8.   Recommended fast charge Method to 80% SOC: 4C to 3.6V CC,12 min
9.   Maximum continuous discharge(A): 70
10. Maximum Pulse discharge(10 seconds,A): 120
11. Cycle life at 10C discharge, 100% DOD: Over 1,000 cycles
12. Operating temperature range: -30°C to +55°C
13. Storage temperature range: -40°C to +60°C




I estimated my maximum loads for my entire home using a generator sizing calculator. 

[Image: funyrn1.jpg] 

I currently only have a 60amp service. I have blown one of my main fuses on occasion in the past when using the dryer AND range, plus the A/C and possibly the hot tub kicking in to cycle. So this calculator seems fairly accurate and a little forgiving at 73amps max draw.

My goal is to never pay for peak power again. So I'm looking to power my home for 10-12 hours during the day with the possibility of adding solar panels in the future.

I'm looking forward to hearing the community's input on these modules and how you might implement them.
hbpowerwall likes this post
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#2
I actually bought 2 of those BAE 40 volt packs. So far I took one apart because I will be making 12 volt powerpacks (like the goal zeros). I ran some cells through my opus (2 at a time thats all that fit) and been getting mostly 1700 mah, a few 1800's and only got 1 1900 so far but only tested about 20 cells. Suspect most are in the 1700 mah area. Those cells would be wasted on a powerwall, they are more for jump starting cars or ebikes packs where high amps are needed. On the opus they barely get warm when charging or discharging at 1 amp.

The only thing about thoses green A123 cells are they are very easy to short out when removing from the pack. Its not going to be a little spark (with each cell at 70 amp constant discharge capable).  Have a fire extinguisher nearby during breakdown. Take your time, it took me 2 days to get all the cells out.   

Something else about those A123 cells is the unlike an 18650 where the positive is on the tip and the rest of the can is negative, these cells the negative is the tip and the rest of the case is positive. I was surprise that these powerful cells weren't fused wire. They are nickel strip together like on a e-bike pack.

The 2 packs weighed about 43 pounds it was a large well packed heavy box. The cells themselves are heavy compared to a 18650 and take up more space. I have a 94 ah 3s56p (168x 18650 cells total) that take up less space/weight then 90 of these cells (which would only give about 45 ah at 12 volts).

Would I recommend them? only if you got the patience to take them out of the pack they are in, its not easy, the pack wasn't designed to be taken apart. Lot of places to short out. I hate sparks, I took one apart and I am dreading taking the other 1 apart. But at least I already know what not to do. They are good cells, charge and discharge quicker on my opus then the 18650. But for the available mah vs pound space, the 18650 will easily beat it. I almost gave up trying to remove the cells, it wasn't easy. I won' buying anymore thats for sure it's too much hassle taking them apart. If you can use them as is (40 volts) then thats a different situation.
iBkickinit likes this post
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#3
Have a look at this thread - they are the same packs - check the cycle life curves and expected lifespan....
https://secondlifestorage.com/t-Has-anyone-seen-these
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#4
(05-18-2018, 02:55 AM)jonyjoe505 Wrote: I actually bought 2 of those BAE 40 volt packs. So far I took one apart because I will be making 12 volt powerpacks (like the goal zeros). I ran some cells through my opus (2 at a time thats all that fit) and been getting mostly 1700 mah, a few 1800's and only got 1 1900 so far but only tested about 20 cells. Suspect most are in the 1700 mah area. Those cells would be wasted on a powerwall, they are more for jump starting cars or ebikes packs where high amps are needed. On the opus they barely get warm when charging or discharging at 1 amp.

The only thing about thoses green A123 cells are they are very easy to short out when removing from the pack. Its not going to be a little spark (with each cell at 70 amp constant discharge capable).  Have a fire extinguisher nearby during breakdown. Take your time, it took me 2 days to get all the cells out.   

Something else about those A123 cells is the unlike an 18650 where the positive is on the tip and the rest of the can is negative, these cells the negative is the tip and the rest of the case is positive. I was surprise that these powerful cells weren't fused wire. They are nickel strip together like on a e-bike pack.

The 2 packs weighed about 43 pounds it was a large well packed heavy box. The cells themselves are heavy compared to a 18650 and take up more space. I have a 94 ah 3s56p (168x 18650 cells total) that take up less space/weight then 90 of these cells (which would only give about 45 ah at 12 volts).

Would I recommend them? only if you got the patience to take them out of the pack they are in, its not easy, the pack wasn't designed to be taken apart. Lot of places to short out. I hate sparks, I took one apart and I am dreading taking the other 1 apart. But at least I already know what not to do. They are good cells, charge and discharge quicker on my opus then the 18650. But for the available mah vs pound space, the 18650 will easily beat it. I almost gave up trying to remove the cells, it wasn't easy. I won' buying anymore thats for sure it's too much hassle taking them apart. If you can use them as is (40 volts) then thats a different situation.



Thank you for the great info. Now I may have to rethink my purpose for them.

(05-18-2018, 10:07 PM)completelycharged Wrote: Have a look at this thread - they are the same packs - check the cycle life curves and expected lifespan....
https://secondlifestorage.com/t-Has-anyone-seen-these

WOW .. big thanks for the link. Exactly the info anyone need to decipher these BAE packs!!
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#5
Wink 
I bought one of those from the same seller and have to say JonyJoes505 is right, real pain to take apart. Don't try to "Roll" off the spot welded tabs either it will just leave small punctures or holes in the ends of the cells. Just cut them with a dermal if it's worth it too you. Good news is with the LiFePo4 chemistry I don't think it will be exploding into a fire fireball on disassembly, although there will be sparks if you're not careful. Cool

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#6
(05-18-2018, 02:55 AM)jonyjoe505 Wrote: I actually bought 2 of those BAE 40 volt packs. So far I took one apart because I will be making 12 volt powerpacks (like the goal zeros). I ran some cells through my opus (2 at a time thats all that fit) and been getting mostly 1700 mah, a few 1800's and only got 1 1900 so far but only tested about 20 cells. Suspect most are in the 1700 mah area. Those cells would be wasted on a powerwall, they are more for jump starting cars or ebikes packs where high amps are needed. On the opus they barely get warm when charging or discharging at 1 amp.

The only thing about thoses green A123 cells are they are very easy to short out when removing from the pack. Its not going to be a little spark (with each cell at 70 amp constant discharge capable).  Have a fire extinguisher nearby during breakdown. Take your time, it took me 2 days to get all the cells out.   

Something else about those A123 cells is the unlike an 18650 where the positive is on the tip and the rest of the can is negative, these cells the negative is the tip and the rest of the case is positive. I was surprise that these powerful cells weren't fused wire. They are nickel strip together like on a e-bike pack.

The 2 packs weighed about 43 pounds it was a large well packed heavy box. The cells themselves are heavy compared to a 18650 and take up more space. I have a 94 ah 3s56p (168x 18650 cells total) that take up less space/weight then 90 of these cells (which would only give about 45 ah at 12 volts).

Would I recommend them? only if you got the patience to take them out of the pack they are in, its not easy, the pack wasn't designed to be taken apart. Lot of places to short out. I hate sparks, I took one apart and I am dreading taking the other 1 apart. But at least I already know what not to do. They are good cells, charge and discharge quicker on my opus then the 18650. But for the available mah vs pound space, the 18650 will easily beat it. I almost gave up trying to remove the cells, it wasn't easy. I won' buying anymore thats for sure it's too much hassle taking them apart. If you can use them as is (40 volts) then thats a different situation.

Hi,
I would like to know more about the process of dismentling cells from these 40v packs.... Looking to make a bank that would run at 24V for a small cabin in the woods where I plan to live in for a while & would also like to know how do you replace a battery car with these and if you do that would the voltage be the same? And would the topping off of the regular battery affect negatively these Li Iron cells?

And you said that it would be a big spark if shorted, for example if I short 2 bussbars when I dissasemble this pack, will I die considering the fact that these pack are rated for short at over 1000 AMPS ? What should I take to prevent this from happening other than be careful? Using composite tools?

Would it be possible to put a video online of you taking appart one of these? Thank you so much Smile
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#7
I broke down and ordered a module... I didn't really need it, and I didn't even want to spend that much per kWh but at least I have something for direct 12v projects now.

These are my first LiFePO4 cells.
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#8
(08-22-2018, 10:07 PM)Crimp Daddy Wrote: I broke down and ordered a module...  I didn't really need it, and I didn't even want to spend that much per kWh but at least I have something for direct 12v projects now.

These are my first LiFePO4 cells.

I love how these LiFePo4 cells can be used in direct 12V replacement projects. I have converted BOTH of my ATVs to these as well as my light duty Ecodiesel work truck (the picture in the first post of this thread is in my truck).

I have had ZERO issues with the headway cells in 12V format so far. I left my 2000W stereo in my truck running for an hour one day at mid-high volume without any starting hesitation at all. I'll never go back to lead acid.

I still haven't built anything with my BAE packs. I can't decide whether I should buy 6 more and make a power wall (keeping them in their exiting format), or separate the ones I have into smaller projects (like another electric ATV or even a BATTLEBOT!)
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#9
Why did you have to mention the headway cells haha. I've been looking at those too but these 96 A123 cells should keep my busy for a while. I wish they came with the bus bar hardware and holders to make it a better value.

I do have an ATV, battery rebuild is a great idea for that, but I bought might primarily for portable radio communications projects and other 12v tinker projects.

I bought the BAE packs to create two larger 12v chucks and the rest of the spare cells to make multiple small 4s1p or 4s2p packs for other small 12v loads.

Keeping them in tact sounds awesome/ideal, but everything for my is either 12, 24, or 48. Last thing I need to do is ad 36v stuff into the mix. I already have enough variation with inverters and gear as it is.
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#10
These packs are what got me into this new hobby Smile . I guess  had high regards for A123 cells and because of the safety  I went ahead and bought 4 of these packs, 3 I kept as is  and the fourth I split into 3 12V sections to  add in series, therefore  making a 48V pack to run my apc 2200 va backup. Once I realized that I need a lot more AH for  a 24 hr home backup  I started collecting  standard 18650 to eventually build a  powerwall that can give me a day of power or about 20Kwh. I read the previous posters comments and honestly  I found it quite easy to disassemble these go slow and get some plastic  door panel removal tool  to help and pry them from the plastic holders. My dilemma is if i can  run these in parallel with the  18650  packs  or  get another inverter and have 2 systems.
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