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Bms on a budget
#1
Hi all

I’m almost finished with my 14s80p 18650 power wall. I really like the batrium stuff but Cant afford it right now. Can I buy it in parts. if yes what do I need as a bare minimum if I want to get started.i would like to make my batteries safe and not overcharge one pack because of bad solder joint etc. alternatively should I look at the cheaper stuff like smartbms and use that in the meantime until I can afford the full batrium kit?
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#2
There's several threads recently on custom bms units. There are a few different avenues they are taking and all are pretty much reachable. Most of the units are fairly inexpensive.
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#3
Cautionary tale - I ran 6 months on 14s 240p battery bank using a set of 7s meters to manually measure voltage while I saved for Batrium. Each cell was tested via OPUS BT-C3100 and all packs were initially matched at 580ah +/- 4ah. I set my Midnite Solar Aux1 to shutoff my inverter at 47.0v (e.g. 3.36v / s) which seemed very safe. Morning, manual checks showed 2 low packs at 3.15v and rest in 3.3 to 3.5 range. All seemed reasonable. However, once I got my Batrium and could log what was happening, I discovered that 2 of the packs had 'wild' voltage swings compared to the others and were going below 2.80v at the 47.0v shutoff and then bouncing back up to 3.15v. Yikes... I have added 10% more / good cells to each of the bad packs and they only go down to 3.05v now... but still have wild voltage swing compared to the others.

Bottom line - I think I damaged these 2 packs thru the 150 cycles by letting them go too low. I am now in process of replacing them and we'll see - but to me, it shows that a BMS / logger / automatic bottom (and top) cutt-off of each pack in series is important.
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#4
(02-17-2019, 02:07 AM)offgridinthecity Wrote: Cautionary tale - I ran 6 months on 14s 240p battery bank using a set of 7s meters to manually measure voltage while I saved for Batrium. Each cell was tested via OPUS BT-C3100 and all packs were initially matched at 580ah +/- 4ah. I set my Midnite Solar Aux1 to shutoff my inverter at 47.0v (e.g. 3.36v / s) which seemed very safe. Morning, manual checks showed 2 low packs at 3.15v and rest in 3.3 to 3.5 range. All seemed reasonable. However, once I got my Batrium and could log what was happening, I discovered that 2 of the packs had 'wild' voltage swings compared to the others and were going below 2.80v at the 47.0v shutoff and then bouncing back up to 3.15v. Yikes... I have added 10% more / good cells to each of the bad packs and they only go down to 3.05v now... but still have wild voltage swing compared to the others.

Bottom line - I think I damaged these 2 packs thru the 150 cycles by letting them go too low. I am now in process of replacing them and we'll see - but to me, it shows that a BMS / logger / automatic bottom (and top) cutt-off of each pack in series is important.

Thank for the heads up. This is what I would like to avoid. Would the batrium kit without the SOC sensor handel all this or is it essential to have it?
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#5
The Soc sensor makes it easier to determine how much is left. With out it you are guessing
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#6
In my example, I reviewed the the pack voltages (shunt not needed for that). Batrium GUI has an option to save info every 5mins to a text file. It was this review of the series of text file data the showed me the drop below 2.8v at 2am when Inverter kicked off and then 3.15v at 6am after I woke up.

Here's an example of the cell (pack) info recorded every x interval that you can set in the Tools -> Snapshot reporting of Batrium.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cell Node information

ID Bypass Initial Session Amp MinV MaxV MaxT BypT HiT HiBypT LoV HiV BypV BypA DatEr Reset CalV RepCV Serial HwVers

1 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.67v 3.67v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 9 2 7 250 273936659 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

2 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.68v 3.69v 13°C 11°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 2 3 11 250 274013710 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

3 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.68v 3.68v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 56 4 8 250 273940670 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

4 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.68v 3.68v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 12 5 7 250 273948144 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

5 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.68v 3.68v 13°C 13°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 98 6 7 250 273936132 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

6 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.68v 3.68v 13°C 13°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 2 7 6 250 274032625 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

7 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.69v 3.69v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 1 8 11 250 274012953 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

8 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.68v 3.68v 14°C 13°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 1 9 7 250 273939092 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

9 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.68v 3.68v 13°C 13°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 130 10 11 250 273936870 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

10 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.68v 3.68v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 3 11 7 250 273938908 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

11 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.68v 3.68v 14°C 13°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 18 12 9 250 274029715 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

12 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.70v 3.71v 14°C 13°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 2 13 12 250 273942861 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

13 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.67v 3.68v 14°C 13°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 0 14 10 250 274030877 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

14 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.68v 3.68v 14°C 13°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 3 15 6 250 273942058 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

15 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.64v 3.64v 14°C 13°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 5 16 7 250 274033258 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

16 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.64v 3.64v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 94 17 6 250 274014472 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

17 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.75v 3.75v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 132 18 9 250 274028345 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

18 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.73v 3.73v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 2 19 9 250 274014670 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

19 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.75v 3.75v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 130 20 10 250 274014008 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

20 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.63v 3.63v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 2 21 7 250 273937878 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

21 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.75v 3.75v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 66 22 9 250 274013977 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

22 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.75v 3.75v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 130 23 8 250 274014037 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

23 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.63v 3.63v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 17 24 9 250 273939392 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

24 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.64v 3.64v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 23 25 5 250 273945225 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

25 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.63v 3.64v 13°C 11°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 133 26 8 250 273938843 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

26 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.63v 3.64v 13°C 11°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 85 27 9 250 273944577 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

27 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.63v 3.64v 13°C 11°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 5 28 7 250 274033152 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

28 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.64v 3.64v 13°C 11°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 133 29 9 250 274024435 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

29 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.68v 3.68v 12°C 11°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 0 30 9 250 273942220 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

30 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.67v 3.68v 12°C 11°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 20 31 5 250 274033665 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

31 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.67v 3.68v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 1 32 6 250 274033529 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

32 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.67v 3.67v 13°C 11°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 2 33 8 250 274015568 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

33 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.67v 3.67v 13°C 11°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 0 34 7 250 273944918 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

34 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.67v 3.67v 13°C 11°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 48 35 8 250 273945250 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

35 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.67v 3.68v 13°C 11°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 1 36 4 250 273945473 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

36 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.67v 3.68v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 2 37 5 250 274015150 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

37 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.67v 3.68v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 34 38 8 250 274027408 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

38 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.67v 3.67v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 20 39 6 250 274025293 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

39 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.68v 3.68v 13°C 11°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 40 40 6 250 273944185 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

40 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.67v 3.68v 13°C 11°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 2 41 10 250 274031284 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

41 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.67v 3.67v 13°C 12°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 128 42 7 250 274022085 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0

42 0.0 mAh 0.00A 3.69v 3.69v 13°C 11°C 40°C 55°C 3.10v 4.16v 4.15v 1.27A 128 43 8 250 273941202 HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
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#7
If you want more detail you can use the software i have written and you get below 1sec resolution. No you dont need shunt for voltages but the shunt give you an indication of the capacity used and or left. Getting that data from the voltage is trickier.
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#8
SORRY - I reposted accidentally.

(02-17-2019, 11:52 PM)offgridinthecity Wrote: In my example, I reviewed the the pack voltages (shunt not needed for that).  Batrium GUI has a Tools->Snapshot Report option to save info every 5mins to a text file.   It was this series of text file data the showed me the drop below 2.8v at 2am (down to inverter cut-off) and then 3.15v bounce back at 6am after I woke up.    

Here's an example of the cell (pack) info recorded every x interval that you can set in the Tools -> Snapshot reporting of Batrium.  
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cell Node information
 ID  Bypass Initial             Session     Amp     MinV    MaxV    MaxT   BypT   HiT   HiBypT LoV     HiV     BypV    BypA  DatEr Reset  CalV RepCV Serial     HwVers
  1                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.67v   3.67v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     9     2     7  250  273936659  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
  2                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.68v   3.69v   13°C   11°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     2     3    11  250  274013710  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
  3                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.68v   3.68v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A    56     4     8  250  273940670  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
  4                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.68v   3.68v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A    12     5     7  250  273948144  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
  5                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.68v   3.68v   13°C   13°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A    98     6     7  250  273936132  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
  6                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.68v   3.68v   13°C   13°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     2     7     6  250  274032625  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
  7                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.69v   3.69v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     1     8    11  250  274012953  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
  8                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.68v   3.68v   14°C   13°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     1     9     7  250  273939092  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
  9                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.68v   3.68v   13°C   13°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A   130    10    11  250  273936870  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 10                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.68v   3.68v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     3    11     7  250  273938908  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 11                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.68v   3.68v   14°C   13°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A    18    12     9  250  274029715  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 12                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.70v   3.71v   14°C   13°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     2    13    12  250  273942861  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 13                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.67v   3.68v   14°C   13°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     0    14    10  250  274030877  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 14                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.68v   3.68v   14°C   13°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     3    15     6  250  273942058  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 15                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.64v   3.64v   14°C   13°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     5    16     7  250  274033258  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 16                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.64v   3.64v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A    94    17     6  250  274014472  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 17                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.75v   3.75v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A   132    18     9  250  274028345  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 18                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.73v   3.73v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     2    19     9  250  274014670  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 19                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.75v   3.75v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A   130    20    10  250  274014008  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 20                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.63v   3.63v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     2    21     7  250  273937878  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 21                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.75v   3.75v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A    66    22     9  250  274013977  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 22                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.75v   3.75v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A   130    23     8  250  274014037  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 23                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.63v   3.63v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A    17    24     9  250  273939392  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 24                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.64v   3.64v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A    23    25     5  250  273945225  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 25                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.63v   3.64v   13°C   11°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A   133    26     8  250  273938843  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 26                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.63v   3.64v   13°C   11°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A    85    27     9  250  273944577  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 27                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.63v   3.64v   13°C   11°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     5    28     7  250  274033152  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 28                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.64v   3.64v   13°C   11°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A   133    29     9  250  274024435  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 29                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.68v   3.68v   12°C   11°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     0    30     9  250  273942220  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 30                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.67v   3.68v   12°C   11°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A    20    31     5  250  274033665  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 31                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.67v   3.68v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     1    32     6  250  274033529  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 32                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.67v   3.67v   13°C   11°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     2    33     8  250  274015568  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 33                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.67v   3.67v   13°C   11°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     0    34     7  250  273944918  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 34                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.67v   3.67v   13°C   11°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A    48    35     8  250  273945250  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 35                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.67v   3.68v   13°C   11°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     1    36     4  250  273945473  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 36                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.67v   3.68v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     2    37     5  250  274015150  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 37                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.67v   3.68v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A    34    38     8  250  274027408  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 38                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.67v   3.67v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A    20    39     6  250  274025293  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 39                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.68v   3.68v   13°C   11°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A    40    40     6  250  273944185  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 40                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.67v   3.68v   13°C   11°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A     2    41    10  250  274031284  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 41                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.67v   3.67v   13°C   12°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A   128    42     7  250  274022085  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
 42                               0.0 mAh   0.00A   3.69v   3.69v   13°C   11°C   40°C  55°C   3.10v   4.16v   4.15v   1.27A   128    43     8  250  273941202  HW6.2 FW2.2 BL2.0
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