Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Cartridge Style Power Wall
#1
Hello all! Finally getting around to my build thread. 

I Started messing with batteries last year (summer 2017), and my humble beginnings started with whatever I could get my hands on. So free lawnmower and heavy truck batteries was my go to. I built up a 48V bank that eventually had about 5KWHs on the AC side and ran a Reliable brand 1500w inverter (it eventually got killed and I tried anotger 3500w with no luck and they have been replaced with an MPP PIP1648MSX). Eventually adding 2.6KW of solar panels (just leaning up against my garage). After getting the basics down I went on the hunt for 18650s.

 

After many months I tapped out every local source of free or cheap lap top packs. I had just enough good cells to make an initial 4s120p pack (1500-2800mah). I hate soldering with a passion so I decided to do a spot weld build. In the mean time I aquired a sweet gift that a buddy found for me! A Magnum 12v inverter that could handle up to 20v input. So after building the packs I began to play with my lithium ion setup. It worked great and put out about 3.5KWHs. I still use this system to this day. Ive had to tear apart 1 pack because it was slowly getting unbalanced from the others after a year of faithful service.



So after getting used to the basics of running that system I decided to do a little more investing in good quality 18650s through Alarm Hookup and Power2Spare on ebay. I finally aquired enough cells to do something with but wasnt satasfied with making large packs, especially my spot welded ones with no cell protection. In the mean time I dabbled in large format cells and bought some Nissan Leaf modules. These kept me satisfied for a while but the expense of them drove me away from buying more. I sat idle with 1000 tested cells just kind of in limbo what to do with them. Then I caught a glimpse of Glenn Andrew Lockey's cartridge wall. That was my que to get moving on a build. Without dragging you guys down with a bunch of useless build crap, ill get to the point.



The system uses cartridges of 6 18650 spot welded and then placed in a 4 slot holder that is fused at 5 amps per slot to each bus bar. The system works great  and is quick to expand with the only soldering being the joints from the 4 slot holders to the bus bars. Then its just a matter of capacity matching each 6 cell cartridge. So far I have soldered 3 units high and have filled 11 of the 12 slots. Ill have to extend my bus bars to allow for more cell holders to be installed. I haven't done a full capacity test yet but will eventually. Im guessing its about 11-12KWHs on the AC side with my Nissan Leaf stack in parallel. I still have yet to use a BMS on any system I have used and I know I should invest in one! For now im going to use my little volt meters to keep an eye on everything. They have been staying very well balanced.




Im not very good at this whole forum thing so ill be uploading pics from my phone in the next post. This could get messy!

Thanks and happy powerwalling!
Ibiza, DCkiwi, Geek And 6 others like this post
Cartridge Wall


Reply
#2
Thank you for sharing. I have been waiting to build my packs but good cells are scarce around here. My original plan was a 14s100p but I did not have enough good cells so they have just been tested, sorted and sitting around. With this modular design I am finally starting my build. Now with every 84 good cells I get I can just add them to the wall.
mr_hypno likes this post
Reply
#3
(12-12-2018, 10:00 PM)bogptrsn Wrote: Thank you for sharing. I have been waiting to build my packs but good cells are scarce around here. My original plan was a 14s100p but I did not have enough good cells so they have just been tested, sorted and sitting around. With this modular design I am finally starting my build. Now with every 84 good cells I get I can just add them to the wall
The way I build the cartridges is by capacity matching each row of 14 that gets installed. I sort cells by 100mah intervals. It makes it a little more difficult to match cartridge capacities with only 6 cells to swap around. For example I would grab 14 cells in the 2400-2499mah range, 14 cells in the 2500-2599mah range, ect. Once I had 6 blocks of 14 cells with each block being within 100mah I would begin to spot weld. Grabbing 1 cell from each of the 6 blocks to make a cartridge. This method has kept each stack in balance within about 0.03v from the day the system went online with my 1st row installed. 
The more you start to stack cartridges in parallel the less critical it is to have them capacity matched as accurately.
bogptrsn likes this post
Cartridge Wall


Reply
#4
Is your plywood 6'?
DCkiwi likes this post
Reply
#5
That is a genuinely innovative idea! I think it will try something like that myself.
mr_hypno likes this post
Reply
#6
(12-13-2018, 02:28 AM)bogptrsn Wrote: Is your plywood 6'

Yep. Appx. 6' X 4'.

(12-13-2018, 02:51 AM)Geek Wrote: That is a genuinely innovative idea! I think it will try something like that myself.

I dont take credit for the cartridge idea. I just put my my own spin on it. Glenn deserves full credit for the idea of this design. This single picture inspired me to finally make a move and build something.  

DCkiwi, Wolf, ajw22 And 4 others like this post
Cartridge Wall


Reply
#7
Nice build.

But I think the cartridge style should use the other type of cell holders, the ones with brass or tinned brass. They can carry a lot more current and have lots less resistance with the added bonus of holding tighter. They do cost a little more, though.
mr_hypno likes this post
Proceed with caution. Knowledge is Power! Literally! Cool 
Knowledge is Power; Absolute Knowledge is Absolutely Shocking!
Certified 18650 Cell Reclamation Technician

Please come join in general chit-chat and randomness at Discord Chat (channels: general, 3d-printing, linux&coding, 18650, humor, ...)
(this chat is not directly affiliated with SecondLifeStorage; VALID email req'd)

Kickstarter: Honest STM32F103 based dev Boards
Patreon: Korishan
Reply
#8
(12-13-2018, 01:10 PM)Korishan Wrote: Nice build.

But I think the cartridge style should use the other type of cell holders, the ones with brass or tinned brass. They can carry a lot more current and have lots less resistance with the added bonus of holding tighter. They do cost a little more, though.

Thank you.
I dont see the need for higher current capacity in my situation as of now. Every 14s6p adds another 5A of current I can draw. I tested for heat with only 4 rows at about 18A and only the fuses got "hot", never the holder or cartridge. Even the negative copper wire legs were cool. Every row adds another 5A of draw I can potentially take from the entire wall. So with my 11 rows I presently have installed that's 55 amps I can take from the 18650s alone. Now add my Nissan Leaf stack in parallel and my potential current draw is way more than my present inverter can handle (about 40A).
Korishan likes this post
Cartridge Wall


Reply
#9
That's kewl, or cool. Tongue

There is something also to take to note here. The silver tabs creating a bit more resistance, may be cool to the touch, or even via the thermometer. However, there's still higher resistance. This higher resistance will decrease the amount of available capacity that you can utilize. The higher the amp draw, the more losses are incurred.

I suppose if you have an abundance of energy source/storage and can charge up the bank easily, it's not much of an issue.
Proceed with caution. Knowledge is Power! Literally! Cool 
Knowledge is Power; Absolute Knowledge is Absolutely Shocking!
Certified 18650 Cell Reclamation Technician

Please come join in general chit-chat and randomness at Discord Chat (channels: general, 3d-printing, linux&coding, 18650, humor, ...)
(this chat is not directly affiliated with SecondLifeStorage; VALID email req'd)

Kickstarter: Honest STM32F103 based dev Boards
Patreon: Korishan
Reply
#10
(12-12-2018, 07:21 PM)mr_hypno Wrote: [...]

The system uses cartridges of 6 18650 spot welded and then placed in a 4 slot holder that is fused at 5 amps per slot to each bus bar. The system works great  and is quick to expand 

[...]

hmmm.  agreed about the quick to expand, but thats not the major point of this ... probably better to say 'easy to rejiggle' or 'easy to service'.  'expand' requires MATCHED sets of cells, which takes time (and luck), IMHO.

anyways ... how do you capacity test 1s6p?  my Opus only goes up to 10000mAH, so ... ? ? ?  just a wonderin'

Nowadays, I no longer work with groups of more than three (1s3p) cells welded together.  My Opuses cant measure good cells [read: slots] beyond this capacity ...


power on!  : )
/DCkiwi

(btw I am a BIG fan of this style of battery.  I run multiple KWH+ strings like this.  I'm a regular re-jiggler.  lol.  I don't have many cells, afterall.  Yes, it's all relative... )
---    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ---
In The Morning !
---------------------------------------------
Reply


Who read this thread?
100 User(s) read this thread:
hbpowerwall (01-30-2019, 01:15 AM), daromer (01-29-2019, 03:07 PM), Sean (01-18-2019, 01:26 AM), mike (12-26-2018, 07:05 PM), NiVa (12-13-2018, 04:41 PM), askmike72 (01-11-2019, 10:39 AM), Majorphill (12-20-2018, 11:56 PM), Korishan (01-29-2019, 11:16 PM), A + A (01-18-2019, 03:44 PM), P.Tasyo Powerwall (12-15-2018, 05:58 AM), PAF (01-29-2019, 04:02 PM), FERCSA (12-13-2018, 01:12 PM), Franky Beuselinck (01-18-2019, 06:08 PM), jdeadman (01-18-2019, 01:54 PM), 2146 (12-27-2018, 04:16 PM), wim (01-29-2019, 03:59 PM), wimpie007 (02-05-2019, 10:38 PM), Pabickwermert (02-13-2019, 04:17 AM), The-J-Man (02-03-2019, 11:26 PM), 1958 greyhound (01-04-2019, 11:26 AM), watts-on (01-29-2019, 03:46 PM), jesusangel (12-28-2018, 05:23 PM), Hanssing (01-19-2019, 10:23 AM), Fredd (01-30-2019, 02:43 PM), IronSky (01-29-2019, 10:38 PM), Stefaan De Ridder (01-30-2019, 09:55 AM), AzJames (01-24-2019, 07:27 PM), Chiptosser (01-29-2019, 02:52 PM), BlueSwordM (01-11-2019, 03:46 PM), tremors (12-12-2018, 10:26 PM), Johnny Stauersbøl (12-29-2018, 09:37 PM), Shade (12-13-2018, 12:17 AM), Daveyboy (01-01-2019, 01:16 PM), Mazlem (12-12-2018, 10:15 PM), Geek (02-11-2019, 04:52 AM), Jon (01-01-2019, 09:27 PM), mr_hypno (01-29-2019, 02:11 PM), floydR (12-26-2018, 04:22 AM), AlexCPU (02-07-2019, 10:44 AM), mickduc (01-12-2019, 02:07 PM), frenchclem17 (01-15-2019, 04:39 PM), TimFr (12-17-2018, 01:26 PM), Lucian Macota (01-29-2019, 06:52 PM), DCkiwi (01-31-2019, 05:49 AM), emerca (12-14-2018, 08:56 AM), rev0 (12-12-2018, 10:29 PM), not2bme (01-18-2019, 01:05 AM), bogptrsn (01-29-2019, 12:34 PM), Jensk (02-02-2019, 06:27 PM), Filip (12-16-2018, 01:50 PM), karmi27 (01-29-2019, 10:41 PM), Solexx X (01-18-2019, 01:52 AM), Ste Collister (02-06-2019, 08:46 PM), Charly144 (01-20-2019, 01:44 PM), djuro (02-02-2019, 02:17 PM), BoomBoomShroom (12-13-2018, 07:13 PM), SecondHandPower (12-29-2018, 06:55 PM), ClardiPower (02-04-2019, 02:33 PM), sturgeo (01-02-2019, 09:38 AM), spinningmagnets (12-14-2018, 12:16 AM), jm1 (01-18-2019, 01:22 AM), cosmic (12-18-2018, 09:58 PM), Jason Morris (12-12-2018, 08:04 PM), marcin (01-29-2019, 01:14 PM), drchips (01-20-2019, 01:17 PM), kosmo (02-14-2019, 05:03 AM), cat23 (12-26-2018, 05:19 PM), Oran Maliphant (01-05-2019, 07:28 PM), rtgunner (12-27-2018, 02:08 AM), Drokz (02-07-2019, 02:58 PM), simonisabella (12-24-2018, 06:31 AM), gpn (12-14-2018, 05:18 PM), Chablis_m (01-18-2019, 04:00 AM), Headrc (01-18-2019, 03:21 PM), Eratigena (01-30-2019, 10:43 AM), ARLISS (02-15-2019, 06:35 PM), Crimp Daddy (12-26-2018, 11:21 PM), Redpacket (01-30-2019, 08:37 AM), velside (01-10-2019, 12:16 AM), Ibiza (02-11-2019, 01:40 PM), Krokodino (12-19-2018, 03:53 PM), Onizuka (01-29-2019, 04:05 PM), Zvonko000 (01-02-2019, 01:46 PM), davidtrn24 (01-30-2019, 02:18 AM), choncy12 (01-19-2019, 01:33 AM), Bubba (12-14-2018, 10:25 PM), Willowvale (01-23-2019, 10:03 AM), Cherry67 (12-16-2018, 10:05 AM), Sholphin02 (02-04-2019, 03:43 AM), Tom Bergisch (12-30-2018, 09:33 AM), Walde (01-06-2019, 01:10 PM), Riplash (01-20-2019, 02:44 PM), 100fuegos (01-20-2019, 09:10 PM), Jim Jr. (12-16-2018, 11:32 PM), Flashoverwrite (12-14-2018, 09:00 PM), bukvaahmed@gmail.com (01-29-2019, 05:09 PM), w0067814 (01-21-2019, 05:00 PM), nkako (12-17-2018, 02:06 PM), Buzz0515 (01-24-2019, 04:19 PM), pipap (01-11-2019, 11:02 AM)

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)