Hello From Westbrook, Maine

Wolf

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Hello all;

My Name is Wolfgang and I found out about this message board through youtube and google just by typing in 18650 :).

I started my solar project with 3Deep cycle marine batteries and a 45 watt harbour freight solar charge kit. After i ran my AC unit for 3 hrs full boar with a cheap modified 3000 watt 12 volt inverter i was hooked. The process continued with 4 100 watt harbour freight kits for a total of 16 panelsand an updated PWM controller. This soon turned into a 48 volt system with MPPT controller and12 deep cycle marine batteries for a nominal 48 volt system. Then the solar bug really hit me. 12 250 watt panels and more MPPT controllers 8000 watt pure sine wave inverter, grid tie inverter, Battery balancing units chargers specific gravity meters etc. I was a flooded cell guru by the time i was done. Maintaining the flooded cells was a challenge though. Bulk, absorption, float and balancing charging and just plain old maintenance of the floodedcells was aggravating, dialing in the MPPT controllers for all the scenarios and at the end of the solar day making sure my batteries where at least 90% so they would not sulfate. I was looking for a different solution. So AGM, Edison batteries,Lithium Ion etc. came to mind. Wow did I just step into an enlightenment in battery technology and price. So I turned as most of us do to google and youtube to look at what other people are doing. Again more enlightenment. My background has always been electronics and mechanics. Played with Heathkits,Radio Shack 200 in 1 kits and erector sets when I was growing up and ended up being an automotive technician for 25 years, till I studied computer networking and am a systems engineer at present. Enough about me. So 18650 came up as a very viable and lower maintenance solution. Lord knows how many of these "good laptop batteries" I have tossed. :(

So I did what Average Joe and DIYPowerwall said on how to collect cells and wella almost everyone was extremely receptive to the recycling used laptop batteries for my solar power project. The only ones that didn't like the idea of me collecting used cells where the snobby independent Apple repair facilities. All in all though all the independent PC repair facilities where more than happy to help. I also instructed all my friends (all 2 of them ) no just kidding to ask their local transfer stations to keep an eye out for laptop and power tool packs.
AlsoSeveral battery recycling places and 1 major recycling facilityare supplying me with the raw materials. Soi have a steady stream of 18650s coming in and that only took about a week of footwork and word of mouth. So far so good. Now what? Ah breaking apart the cells.Gloves, strong wrists, and a pair of channel locks and after about 100 or so packs I had the system down. I can now field strip most battery packs in less than 30 seconds not saying that there are some that are damned tough. OK what's next. More you tube. Ah Voltage check and sort. OK Home depot containers 3V+ here, less than 3V but more that 2.5V here, and the rest here. The really dead ones go here so 4 containers. Plus the plastic and the charge controllers and nickle strips in their separate containers. OK That done, now what? More you tubing. Charging and testing. I see. I will post more details and pictures of my charging station build in the appropriate forum. Thanks for reading and remember if18 X 650 =2000 mAh than life is good. Picture of my System with flooded cellsat present attached.

Later

Wolf
image_firrzw.jpg


PS I will update my profile info as soon as I figure it out how and to think I work on networks and computers. Sheees
 
Welcome and impressive system. glad to see someone else who like breaking apart cells. I find it relaxing! Mind going over the flow of that System you posted? looks very nice and What inverters are you running?
 
jdeadman said:
Welcome and impressive system. glad to see someone else who like breaking apart cells. I find it relaxing! Mind going over the flow of that System you posted? looks very nice and What inverters are you running?

Thank you jdeadman

I am using a GTIL2 and a Power Jack 8000 a proverbial thorn in my side. But that's another story.
I just posted my GTIL system on "Solar Panels, Charge Controllers, and Inverters"and have all the info there.
Here is the wiring diagram of my complete system. let me know what you think. I have also added it as a full size attachment.


image_wqmgxl.jpg



Wolf

image_xwiprv.jpg
 
Cool. Very nice. What's the Story on the Power Jack?
 
jdeadman said:
Cool. Very nice. What's the Story on the Power Jack?

You had to ask.
OK I orderd this unithttps://www.ebay.com/itm/15000w-LF-PSW-SPLIT-PHASE-power-inverter-dc-48v-ac110V-220V-battery-charger-UPS-/322883927008?hash=item4b2d61bbe0

The first one arrived and was so heavily damaged I had to send it back. Literally wires had come un-done the transformer support was all bent and it was in terrible shape.
I got the replacement unit and it looked let's just say okay. Cosmetically it looked good and I was happy. I wired it up and did some testing with my heat gun and it was working.
I built a proper support bench and wired it into my system. Turned it on with no load on it and about 5 min intoit there was a lot of popping and sparks and smoke
24 of the MOSFETs had given up the ghost.
image_tkuzzu.jpg

Contacted the seller and they sent out all the new MOSFET boards (8)for a total of 48 mosfets. Replaced those which was a treat with my big hands especially next to the transformer. Turned it on and nothing. Investigated and found that the MOSFET driver board had also blown.

image_wzijoj.jpg
.
Got that replacement and finally something made the right noises but no power and it would not shut off. Traced that to 2 popped capacitors on the Power source board (sorry no picture). Got a replacement forthat. In the meantime I figured I might as well order all the boards from powerjack direct and pay for them as if this thing is so sensitive and I'm in a jamb I might as well stock the replacement parts. OK so they came from a slow boat finally and of course I have a version 4 main IC board and they sent me a version 3.72. Another email chain back and forth that would have been the envy ofrapunzel. but I digress. The inverter finally powered up and was humming along with the warranty replacement parts and producing a satisfactory 240 volts. I threw the main breaker to the grid off and turned the inverter breaker on and lo and behold my house was up and running on the inverter. Good stuff. I obviouslyhave all the sensors available in the shed and the house and I was drawing about 20 amps out of my battery bank and everything was humming along just fine. I was happy. As this was not an emergency and the grid was up and my GTIL was basically cutting my electric bill in half I rescinded to just using this inverter for emergencies as my calculations turned out to be that I would kill my battery bank in about 5 to 6 hrs. Still not bad for an emergency and it would probably last longer if I am conservative with my emergency power use.
Well my battery banks specific gravity per cell was approaching a not so good level and after reading as much chinese-english as I could I determined to try the battery charging feature of this inverter. So I powerd everything up and switched the ATS switch to UPS lo and behold the inverter started charging my batteries at 60 amps. Cool.
Then my 20 amp 110 breaker clicked off. I was pulling too much current to charge my batteries. Hm okay so another run to home depot. 30 amp 110 breaker box and 10 gage wire
etc. Tried it again that worked no more tripping the breaker. about 5 min into that test Pop one of the charge controller relays let go.

image_cgitdr.jpg

So I called that a fail.
Luckily I had another board that I ordered on my dime and replaced it and it is now working again. in the meantime I am waiting for a replacement charge controller board and the version 4 main IC board. As of yet I have not put the cover bolts back on.
That's the story.

Wolf
 
Wow Talk about playing the long game. Dude that's crazy. Right now I've only been playing with UPS units and they have been good so far just not great in the Wattage department
 
Greetings! Great setup. Just curious where did you get that equalizer from?
 
Geek said:
Greetings! Great setup. Just curious where did you get that equalizer from?

I built it.
Using (3)48V Solar System Battery Balancer Equalizer For Lead-acid Batteries HA02,a uxcell 12.6"x9.5"x2.3"(320mmx240mmx60mm) ABS Junction Box Universal Electric Project Enclosure and (3)MakerFocus 4pcs Digital Voltmeter 0.56 Inch Waterproof and Dustproof Two-Wires DC 2.5-30V Digital Display Voltmeter, Reverse Polarity Protection and Accurate Pressure Measurement 4 Colours. 16 gauge color coordinated wire to coordinate with the Leds.


Wolf
 
I like your setup.
How long have you been using the MakeSkyBlue chargers, and have you had any issues with them?
I want to use one but I'm worried about my BMS disconnecting (and possibly reconnecting) my battery while it's still getting solar input, if any cells become over-charged/discharged, I don't suppose you've tried it?
 
iscience said:
I like your setup.
How long have you been using the MakeSkyBlue chargers, and have you had any issues with them?
I want to use one but I'm worried about my BMS disconnecting (and possibly reconnecting) my battery while it's still getting solar input, if any cells become over-charged/discharged, I don't suppose you've tried it?

iscience,

I have been using the MakeSkyBlue MPPT controllers since ~ July 2018. I do to some extent like them and will continue to use them for a while.
I did have a problem with one of them where the mosfets blew up and it was difficult to get a "warranty replacement". but after I bought another one from a different vendor and a $40.00 replacement motherboard from the original vendor, the original vendor promised to send me a free replacement unitwith the new firmware etc, I haven't seen it yet. In the final analysis I replaced the mosfets on the blow up one and now have 2 spares. If I ever get the promised one I'll have 3 spares. :dodgy:

All in all they work OK the do very well with MPPT tracking and are pretty quick to respond. Programing is relatively easy once you get to know how it all works and it is a set it and forget it scenario. There is no wifi or data output, other than the screen,so you have to monitor them differently or manually. I have noticed that the voltages are off a little between units and that they will go into float mode (I have them set up for my Lead Acids) at different times even though they are all set up the same. I think the discrepancy in Voltage sensing and the lack of them being able to communicate with each other causes that. On one of them the fan has become noisy during cold startup but I will replace it with a better fanin the future. Eh you get what you pay for. Do be aware of "fakes" watch out for firmware versions as someof them claim the newestbut it is just a hacked version of the latest with a newer version number hacked into it.
When I go for my 18650 powerwall I will definitely look for a better and single MPPT solution. As I have 3000 Watts of solar panels and in the summer they produce almost 50A I will probably find a 80A MPPT solution.

As far as the BMS uncoupling the batteries from the MPPT I don't know why it would as that should be programmable as an overvoltage and overcharge safety net. The MakeSkyBlue has a Li setup and you can set the top voltage with it. The system basically goes into standby when the voltage you have set it for is reached.The controller just won't allow anymore current to flow. So the BMS should really never come into play as you would have the MPPT set for example in a Nominal 48V system to 56V and the BMSover voltage protection at 58V. Believe me I have seen my Voltage on my panels hit over 100V and nothing gets to my batteries because they are full.This happens pretty quickly on a very sunny day and I am frustrated that I am wasting all this solar juice hence I want to build apowerwall to absorb all that wasted energy.

Hope this helps
Wolf
 
@Wolf: Good to see a fellow Maineiac/Mainer on here. I wish I were still in Maine now. Moved away after joining the U.S. Navy about 12 years ago. Currently in Washington State. I myself will be building a powerwall, I'm in the long process of harvesting and testing now. I plan to have around 10-15 kWh to start and move up over 30 kWh since that seems to be my daily usage on the grid. I will wait a bit to add solar (Washington kind of sucks for that) but eventually will add it to help offset the cost of power. I may even add a couple of wind turbines.
 
chamele0n said:
................. I will wait a bit to add solar (Washington kind of sucks for that) but eventually will add it to help offset the cost of power. I may even add a couple of wind turbines.

Wind turbines sounds great but with all the rain maybe a private dam is in your future. :p

Yep been in Maine since 85 and never looked back. Love it here even with the snow.
I'm trying to figure out a system to get juice out of melting snow. LOL
Wolf
 
Wolf said:
As far as the BMS uncoupling the batteries from the MPPT I don't know why it would as that should be programmable as an overvoltage and overcharge safety net. The MakeSkyBlue has a Li setup and you can set the top voltage with it. The system basically goes into standby when the voltage you have set it for is reached.

Thanks for the quick reply (sorry I somehow missed the notification and only just thought to check).

I mean the situation where a single cell is bad and the BMS disconnects the charger to protect it - so the pack voltage is still within the normal range. As far as I can tell this is what might happen:

1) cell goes over max voltage while charging
2) BMS disconnects charger
3) ** possible damage to charger ** (from battery disconnect)
4) charger output voltage increase to maximum value set

Then, it either needs to be all reset manually, or (ideally) it would do the following automatically:
5) BMS reconnects charger once cell has been balanced to below threshold voltage
6) ** possible damage to charger and/or other electronics ** (initial inrush current due to charger voltage being higher than battery voltage - but should be quite brief?)
7) continue charging as normal, possibly back to (1)

Ideally, the BMS would keep cells balanced and this never occurs, but I prefer to know just in case.
 
iscience said:
As far as I can tell this is what might happen:
1) cell goes over max voltage while charging
2) BMS disconnects charger
3) ** possible damage to charger ** (from battery disconnect)
4) charger output voltage increase to maximum value set

Then, it either needs to be all reset manually, or (ideally) it would do the following automatically:
5) BMS reconnects charger once cell has been balanced to below threshold voltage
6) ** possible damage to charger and/or other electronics ** (initial inrush current due to charger voltage being higher than battery voltage - but should be quite brief?)
7) continue charging as normal, possibly back to (1)

Ideally, the BMS would keep cells balanced and this never occurs, but I prefer to know just in case.

Iscience,

You do raise an interesting point to which I don't really havea proper answer to. At this point my BMS experience is limited to lead acids. and that is a pretty simplistic unit I built.

The only thing that I can think of that might work is a "Super Capacitor" before the BMS disconnect to maintain the illusion of a battery bank still hooked up to the charge controllers as to fool them into thinking the battery is full so that they can throttle back.
The issue is if there is a shunt trip there is definitely something wrong and it should not have an automatic reset.
Alarm bells should be ringingand a fire extinguisher should be close by. Although lithium creates its own O2 just like magnesium the fire would be hard to put out.

I was contemplating this type of dampener "Capacitor" to be able to charge 2 battery banks separately from my charge controllers. If 1st bank = full, auto switchover to 2nd bank and the charge controllers would never know.The charge controllerwouldnot have a ~58V to0V to ~50Vshock. The charge controllers do have some capacitors in them but they bleed off pretty fast.

Would it work I don't know.

Wolf
 
Yeah, it's something I've been thinking about but I'm not game to try it and risk breaking something. You're right anyway, it's safer to force a manual check to make sure nothing has gone wrong. I'd probably want to know if a cell is needing a lot of balancing.

I think the solution for now is to add an extra disconnect on the solar input to the charger, so it'll all turn off and stay off.
 
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