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Hybrid Inverter/charger for Tesla modules
#1
I'm sorry if this has been discussed earlier, but I thought I scoured this section and didn't find it.  Does anyone have any recommendations for a Hybrid inverter for the US market (works with split phase 240/120) that works well with the 12s you'd get out of Model S/X modules or 23s/25s you'd have from Model 3 modules?  I'm looking to install solar with battery backup this year and my power company pays about 20% for excess power generated compared to what they charge when I buy it, so I'd prefer to store what I make for use later.  It looks like most units only allow a low voltage threshold of 40V, which would leave a decent amount of power still in the batteries and I'm not finding any that work around 96V for the Model 3 modules.  I guess I shouldn't say any, there are the Sigineer's that EVTV is working on, but it looks like they are manually implementing the AC coupling/hybrid portion so I'm not sure if those work fully yet or not.  I had also wondered about supplementing Tesla modules with harvested cells.  I have maybe 5kw worth of "good" batteries if I go down to 1800mah.  So I could go 12s with Tesla and the final 2s with homemade to get to 14s, but not sure how well that'd mix or when I'd get the time to make those final 2s.

Thanks,
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#2
Just a thought, isn't it possible to dismantle the 12s pack and rearrange to 14s? That would give you a lot more inverters to look at.
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#3
It is possible, but if you've seen any of the teardown videos, not an easy task. The S/X modules have like a giant plastic cell holder glued to the top of the cells and they both have coolant pipes running between all the rows.

SMA just announced a high voltage inverter that said it accepted 100-450 V. I think if we can figure what communication goes across the CAN bus, could build a pack in that range pretty easily. 2-4 Model 3 modules or 5-14 S/X modules.

If anyone knows what would be needed by the inverter and/or if a Pi or Batrium could provide it would be awesome.
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#4
Hi all,
Currently in the proces of reverse engineering  can protocol between the SMA Sunny Boy Storage 6.0
https://files.sma.de/dl/31186/SBS37-60-D...V21web.pdf )

We bought a complete test rig, SBS 6.0 + BYD 6.4Kwh, meanwhile a customer gave us a SBS 2,5, the little kid brother, to test with.
Purpose is to connect the SIMPbms in between Tesla modules and the SMA SBS series.
or better said any other ev battery that can be controlled by SIMPbms....Outlander iMIEV, GEN1 Volt/Ampera, and hopefully more to come.
Work in progress by Even Thorsten Norway, Daniel Boekel Netherlands, Tom de Bree UK

Current results are promising.

Future goals...
We could use help from members owning a SOLAX 3Ph HV hybrid inverter, to sniff out the can messages.
https://www.solaxpower.com/en/x-hybrid-three-phase/


More info on SIMPbms can be found on Github.com/tomdebree
and here
contact me if interested in the project,

and yes, Tesla modules can be used with SIMPbms connected to a Victron inverter since charge voltage span can be adjusted in firmware to  match,


best Carel Hassink
pro-LOX, Carel Hassink, 
Obdam, Netherlands
36Kw ESS, 320 Yuasa LEV40 cells
14.2Kwp Ciggs solar panels, 2 Goodwe 3phase inverters
SMA SI 8.0 single phase + controls, REC BMS

second life ev/phev li-on batteries
follow me on facebook.com/Carel1956
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#5
I live in the Netherlands and I found this forum because I have exactly the same problem and question as TS, although I have a 3-phase (3x 230V/25A) grid connection.

I also am looking at using Tesla Model S modules and for what I found, they are 24V/5,3kW units.
@hazSolar, when you talk about 12s, that suggests that it would be 48V units? Are we talking about the same modules?

Anyway, I also found Sigineer. But their 3phase inverter-chargers are out of stock......
I prefer one 3-phase inverter over 3 single-phase inverter. So if anybody has a suggestion about a 3-phase inverter-charger that runs of 48 or 96V then I'm very interested as my current idea is to use 4 of these Tesla modules.
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#6
Antoon,
good evening,
check this,
you still need a bms to control your Tesla modules, 
some good commercial ones around like Orion bms or Emus bms, with Tesla cmu replacement board
so leads to the 6 cells inside can hook-up to the Orion/Emus bms master.

But the other important feature is control over the inverter of your choice, preferably by can/modbus etc
see link; dutch distributor https://eveurope.eu/product-category/tesla-parts/

SIMPbms
However the SIMPbms can hook up straight to the Tesla CMU's using purpose made serial cable, or recycled original Tesla serial cable to connect to the modules.
We prefer to connect to an inverter using can protocol, but SIMP bms can be used to any inverter by using relays to shut down at pre-defined voltages while charging or discharging, or other set events like undertemp/overtemp etc.

different brands of EV batteries
Not to mention this SIMPbms is working with VOLT gen1 modules, GS YUASA LEV50/40 cells, and (work in progress) VW and BMW batteries 

The queeste is to connect as many types of EV batteries to SIMPbms by reverse engineering their protocols,
and to get as many inverters/hybrid inverters, HV inverters etc to talk to the SIMPbms.

We need help, currently we are working on SMA SBS HV range of inverters,
but we also would like to give a crack at SOLAX 3phase HV inverters or the HV KOSTAL Plenticore Plus range, both being HV Hybrid pv inverters
Please contact me if you have such a set-up, so we can arrange sniffing the data protocols.

@Antoon, just drop a pm, and perhaps I can help out

Carel
pro-LOX, Carel Hassink, 
Obdam, Netherlands
36Kw ESS, 320 Yuasa LEV40 cells
14.2Kwp Ciggs solar panels, 2 Goodwe 3phase inverters
SMA SI 8.0 single phase + controls, REC BMS

second life ev/phev li-on batteries
follow me on facebook.com/Carel1956
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#7
(04-30-2019, 03:03 AM)hazSolar Wrote: It is possible, but if you've seen any of the teardown videos, not an easy task.  The S/X modules have like a giant plastic cell holder glued to the top of the cells and they both have coolant pipes running between all the rows.  

SMA just announced a high voltage inverter that said it accepted 100-450 V. I think if we can figure what communication goes across the CAN bus, could build a pack in that range pretty easily. 2-4 Model 3 modules or 5-14 S/X modules.

If anyone knows what would be needed by the inverter and/or if a Pi or Batrium could provide it would be awesome.

Ok, just watched some videos and yes its a pain to dismantle them. But I'm always in for the less technical way and in this case it would be a solution like get yourself 148 Panasonic 18650NCR cells 3400 mAh cells, build a 74s2p pack with them and combine with the 12s tesla batteries. Now you can use normal BMS and inverter. When building the 2s pack keep the ability to finetune the capacity by adding or removing some cells so the packs match with the exististing used tesla battery.
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#8
I think Carel is on the right track here. If the CAN can be figured out, then we can use some of these higher voltage inverters and a lot of options open up. I'm also curious if anyone knows what Enphase uses to talk to their AC batteries.
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